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2015/12/30 20:22:41
Subject: Noob's basic question regarding tank squadron
I don't have the BRB at hand right now, so I'm asking here.
Let's say we have a squadron of three Leman Russ Battle Tanks. (In the formation, or in the heavy support of CAD or unbound, or in the troop of Armored battle group)
Can those 3 tanks fire at different targets in a same shooting phase? Let's assume we have 3 tank (A, B, C) vs 3 target (C, D, E) situation. If A, B, and C are in the same tank squadron, can day shoot at C, D, and E, respectively in a same turn? Or do they allowed to shoot at only 1 target, C or D or E?
I'm really curious, since I don't find any good point of using tank squadron, if the individual fire (or split fire) is not allowed. It would be waste of firepower for some situations. If the individual fire is not allowed, what is the meaning and merit of tank squadron of 2+ tanks?
Thanks
Best,
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2015/12/30 20:26:37
2015/12/30 21:49:20
Subject: Noob's basic question regarding tank squadron
Squadrons follow the same rules as normal unit (because that's all a squadron is, is a unit) so no you don't get to shoot at different targets.
There is no real advantage to squadrons. The only reason to is a lack of FoC slots (or you are forced to such as with the Tank Commander). Some of the new codex give a free bonus for taking max squadrons but they aren't super amazing as of yet.
2015/12/30 21:55:01
Subject: Noob's basic question regarding tank squadron
It can also be beneficial for buff purposes. For example, buffing a squad of War Walkers with guide is more effective than trying to buff separate individual walkers. It's also helpful for reserves if your walkers can all come on together.
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2015/12/31 00:16:03
Subject: Noob's basic question regarding tank squadron
Squadrons suck. The main problem is not so much they're forced to shoot the same target (though its annoying, it can be managed), its the fact that Glances and Penetrations get propagated through the squadron. With the amount of high ROF weapons in the game that can easily glance medium armour, you can see entire squadrons of vehicles just melt under a single enemy unit's fire.
Always split your vehicles up into individual units where you can. The new formations help here because you generally have to take like 3 units of tanks anyway so there's your 3 tanks as separate units.
2015/12/31 05:26:59
Subject: Noob's basic question regarding tank squadron
CrownAxe wrote:Squadrons follow the same rules as normal unit (because that's all a squadron is, is a unit) so no you don't get to shoot at different targets.
There is no real advantage to squadrons. The only reason to is a lack of FoC slots (or you are forced to such as with the Tank Commander). Some of the new codex give a free bonus for taking max squadrons but they aren't super amazing as of yet.
Thank you. As I read more BRB and codex, now more things become cleared. Squadron is not a good option.
Zimko wrote:It can also be beneficial for buff purposes. For example, buffing a squad of War Walkers with guide is more effective than trying to buff separate individual walkers. It's also helpful for reserves if your walkers can all come on together.
Yes for some cases squadron can be useful, such as getting buff from psyker. But still, squadron system has a serious problem about wound/damage allocation
GoonBandito wrote:Squadrons suck. The main problem is not so much they're forced to shoot the same target (though its annoying, it can be managed), its the fact that Glances and Penetrations get propagated through the squadron. With the amount of high ROF weapons in the game that can easily glance medium armour, you can see entire squadrons of vehicles just melt under a single enemy unit's fire.
Always split your vehicles up into individual units where you can. The new formations help here because you generally have to take like 3 units of tanks anyway so there's your 3 tanks as separate units.
Thank you, and I also figured out about this. This is serious problem. Like you mentioned, strong attack or charge enough to take HP3+ would just ruin entire squadron. You are right, tanks should be separated, unless there is a no choice. Now I understand something. Thanks
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/12/31 05:27:26
2015/12/31 17:33:13
Subject: Re:Noob's basic question regarding tank squadron
There are benefits and drawbacks to a tank squadron. I will outline the ones I know of.
Spoiler:
The benefits:
1. Tanks in the same tank squadron see through each other for purposes of LoS. So you don't have to worry about them getting in each other's way. This can be especially useful for close quarters battles.
2. When enemies fire at a tank squadron, the closest tank is always the one that gets hit, and its armor facing in relation to the shooter is the AV used. This rule makes it very easy to force your enemy to fire at your front armor by positioning the vehicles in your squadron such that most directions the enemy fires are you from will result in the closest vehicle facing front armor at them.
3. Because penetrating/glancing hits are allocated one by one, if your enemy wrecks the first tank in the squadron and the hits carry over to the next closest tank, that next tank may get a cover save or even have LoS to it completely blocked by the wrecked tank from its squadron. If LoS is blocked entirely by the wreck, the remaining hits go to waste.
4. Beneficial powers or abilities that affect "Units" affect the entire squadron. This includes many psychic powers.
5. It is easy to fit more tanks into a bound list because they are 1 unit on the force organization chart.
The drawbacks:
1. Enemies only have 1 unit to fire at, meaning they can focus fire without having to worry about excess penetrating hits/wounds going to waste except in certain circumstances (read the 3rd benefit again)
2. All of the tanks in the squadron must fire at the same target, potentially, and often, causing excess wounds/hits to be wasted as so much firepower will often wipe out the target before all the wounds are allocated.
3. All of the tanks stay within a certain distance of each other (I can't remember if it's 6" or 3"). This can limit your ability to maneauver depending on the terrain.
4. Detrimental powers or abilities that affect "Units" affect the entire squadron. This includes many psychic powers.
Tactics for use with squadrons:
1. Always be mindful of each vehicle's facing, as stated in the benefits, face them in a manner that reduces your enemy's angles of attack on your side and rear armor.
2. This isn't a must, but for Leman Russes specifically, you can take a tank commander to mitigate the drawback of having to fire at one target because the tank commander can order his squadron to split fire. He also gives BS 4 so he's decent for his point cost, pask is even better.
3. Use LoS to your advantage, as stated above, your squadron can see through its own tanks, but your enemy cannot see through yours! You can use this to block their line of sight or give cover saves to your other two tanks if they only wreck the 1st tank, while still getting to dump ridiculous amounts of firepower back at them.
4. Use beneficial abilities and psychic powers on these tanks to give the whole squadron buffs.
I hope this helps, I've used squadrons with IG for a long time, they are a double edged sword but if used correctly can be devastating.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/12/31 17:41:01
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2015/12/31 19:48:20
Subject: Re:Noob's basic question regarding tank squadron
chrispy1991 wrote: There are benefits and drawbacks to a tank squadron. I will outline the ones I know of.
Spoiler:
The benefits:
1. Tanks in the same tank squadron see through each other for purposes of LoS. So you don't have to worry about them getting in each other's way. This can be especially useful for close quarters battles.
2. When enemies fire at a tank squadron, the closest tank is always the one that gets hit, and its armor facing in relation to the shooter is the AV used. This rule makes it very easy to force your enemy to fire at your front armor by positioning the vehicles in your squadron such that most directions the enemy fires are you from will result in the closest vehicle facing front armor at them.
3. Because penetrating/glancing hits are allocated one by one, if your enemy wrecks the first tank in the squadron and the hits carry over to the next closest tank, that next tank may get a cover save or even have LoS to it completely blocked by the wrecked tank from its squadron. If LoS is blocked entirely by the wreck, the remaining hits go to waste.
4. Beneficial powers or abilities that affect "Units" affect the entire squadron. This includes many psychic powers.
5. It is easy to fit more tanks into a bound list because they are 1 unit on the force organization chart.
The drawbacks:
1. Enemies only have 1 unit to fire at, meaning they can focus fire without having to worry about excess penetrating hits/wounds going to waste except in certain circumstances (read the 3rd benefit again)
2. All of the tanks in the squadron must fire at the same target, potentially, and often, causing excess wounds/hits to be wasted as so much firepower will often wipe out the target before all the wounds are allocated.
3. All of the tanks stay within a certain distance of each other (I can't remember if it's 6" or 3"). This can limit your ability to maneauver depending on the terrain.
4. Detrimental powers or abilities that affect "Units" affect the entire squadron. This includes many psychic powers.
Tactics for use with squadrons:
1. Always be mindful of each vehicle's facing, as stated in the benefits, face them in a manner that reduces your enemy's angles of attack on your side and rear armor.
2. This isn't a must, but for Leman Russes specifically, you can take a tank commander to mitigate the drawback of having to fire at one target because the tank commander can order his squadron to split fire. He also gives BS 4 so he's decent for his point cost, pask is even better.
3. Use LoS to your advantage, as stated above, your squadron can see through its own tanks, but your enemy cannot see through yours! You can use this to block their line of sight or give cover saves to your other two tanks if they only wreck the 1st tank, while still getting to dump ridiculous amounts of firepower back at them.
4. Use beneficial abilities and psychic powers on these tanks to give the whole squadron buffs.
I hope this helps, I've used squadrons with IG for a long time, they are a double edged sword but if used correctly can be devastating.
This is honestly some of the best advice that could be given regarding squadrons.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/12/31 19:48:37
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