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Hey, quick question. Between these two options, which would you consider to be more powerful? The rest of the list is a typical, bike, trukk, loota spam style. Thanks in advance.

#1) 2 x MANz units (340 pts)
-BP, Killsaw, trukk with ram

#2) 3 x MSU tankbustas (345 pts)
- 3 squig bombs, trukk with ram

I like the manz Missiles myself- tankbustas always seem to preform underwhelming in most games in my experience, where the MANz seem to always make a big impact on the table.

MANz all day long.

IMHO the question an Ork player needs to ask himself when designing a list is "what can this unit do that boyz/more boyz/boyz with a hard melee character can't?', and to my mind this is where Meganobz come out on top.

IMHO the only time to take tankbustas over meganobz is if you desperately want an anti-land raider unit and you really can't find the extra points for a MANz missile. Boyz can smash up lesser tanks easily enough, and MANz with a killsaw dude can deal with heavy armour and still fight their way through most other stuff in your opponent's army.

Tankbustas are interesting but they have the same problem every single ork model has except MANz - expensive and 0 defenses. Kinda comical how every single "bad" unit we got suffers from the same thing the most.

175pts is dirt damn cheap for what MANz do. I almost never end up disappointed in them. I usually run 2 of them and flank up opposite sides of the board. Even against things that murder their face, unless they strike at init with ap2 i will kill you with me and im willing to bet money your unit was more expensive lol.

Tankbustas spamming rokkits is no weak tactic either. But you are basically mandated to use a Wagon to keep them alive, which makes them even more expensive. And face it, BWs are pretty damn easy to remove, killing about half the tankbustas in the process. If they had some kind of damn save, i'd say they're golden.

Theres also the fact that MANz are potent enough to exist in literally any list, since they dont need any support whatsoever (just something to not make them the only target, which isnt hard for orks since we seldom have reserves)
Wagon lists, biker lists, foot lists, hell even Walker lists ive used MANz missiles to great success.

MANz missiles all day. First of all, I love how they look, putting them in dirt-cheap trukks is actually a good idea, and you can easily field multiple units of them because they're so cheap.

There was another recent thread that featured an opinion saying that Mutilators are superior to Mega-Armored Nobz.....thankfully that opinion got shouted down pretty quickly. Both MANz and Tankbustas are kinda necessary for competitive Orks in a one-or-the-other kind of fashion, but generally speaking I prefer the MANz myself. Think of it like this; unless the opponent has AP2 (but everyone does nowadays) shooting then three MANz are durability-wise the equivalent of six Terminators for half the cost. Tankbustas are a lot more expensive than regular Boyz but die just as easily. Both units are great in their own way but I feel MANz perform better for me as three of them is so cheap and a pretty darned scary melee unit that the opponent can't afford to ignore.

the thing about each example is price and dependability.
manz are expensive, but effective, require transport, but suffer low ld just like tankbustas (and a bp rarely helps imho).
tankbusta msu are cheap, stick in truk, and fire and forget. they are a suicide unit to blow up enemy heavy vehicles and even superheavies (suicide mainly because the resulting explosion will most likley kill them), they are the same ld of manz but since theyre cheaper you wouldnt feel as bad when they run.
manz are more versitile since they can give a beating and survive, but more points are needed to keep them from running and mobile (bully boyz is most preferable way to do manz).
tankbustas are cheaper and so are a filler unit to your list, whats neat is that 5 tankbustas with trukk and ram is exactly 100pts, so easy to add to any list.

The best thing is that both of them are individually great units when mounted in Trukks, it isn't uncommon to see competitive Ork lists fill their Elite choices with both units. One of the positives for Ork players at the moment I feel. Chuck in Zhadsnark and the super-discounted Buzzgob Stompa and Orks really start to bring it.

As a Marine player, Meganobz don't even remotely scare me. Should I fail to blow up their ride in their deployment zone, then they'll likely kill one of my disposable MSU units and then die in a storm of plasma and grav. Tankbustas may die easily too, but at least they can still do something even if their ride goes boom early.

you could try forgeworld grot tanks (elite choice in any normal ork army not dredd mob). for 40 pts you can kit out one with the deadly grotzooka, of course they come in squads of 3, so 120 pts with randum movement could be risky.

Both are great depending on what you need the most.

Tankbustas and MANz are both good units that serve similar yet also different roles in the Ork army. Tankbustas give some actual range threat potential, deadly to flyers, very good at swarming super heavies, and aren't dependent on actually getting into melee range. MANz are great bullet sponges, kills basically everything in close combat (just don't expect them to survive against at initiative AP2 attacks, let a unit of boyz tank those attacks if possible), and their killsaws make short work of any vehicle.

A lot of it comes down to player preference and what other units they are taking in an army. Lootas and Mek guns for example tend to do some of what Tankbustas do (although I think Tankbustas are better than both of them). MANz tend to be the best source of PKs in the Ork dex but you can get PKs from boyz, bikers, some HQs, and walkers (walkers suck sadly).

Bustas easily. Shooting > CC in 7th and Bust as even have Melts Bombs with Tankhunters to pretty much blow up any vehicle.

MANz are good, but blow up the Transport and you might as well haul them on an objective

I love my MANZ, but tankbustas are just more flexible. 5 in trukks, or 10 in gunwagons, both with maximum bomb squigs and you are set to seriously threaten virtually any unit in the game.
Obviously any armour, upto and including superheavies needs to give them a wide berth, and with a 24" range, that a lot of board control, 18" for your squigs.
But, MEQs should be wary too, that's a lot of high strength, instant death flying about. Even MCs need to take them into serious consideration, there's not much the bustas can't hurt if they take a shot at it.
Finally, flyers. You might be hitting on 6s, but that's no problem for orks. But a str8, tankhunter hit is going to wreck pretty much any flyer. If you aim at them, only a fool won't jink.
They are fragile, that's why they need to sit in a vehicle, and only come out to assault. The cheapest and most robust option is the gunwagon, 60 points for AV13 and open topped. It's built for bustas.

Nice response so far, keep it up. Personally, I think tankbustas are more versatile and I have had good experiences with them in battlewagons. I just think MANz are sweet looking.

MANZ are more powerful, but Tankbustas are definitely better at winning games.

I'm actually surprised to see all of the MANZ love. If you don't go 1st, your MANZ can easily become worthless. Tankbustas are a lower target priority, and can contribute even if they get stranded in the backfield, because they can run and shoot effectively.

Basically, MANZ are win big / lose big, and have many more hard counter. Tankbustas are much more reliable, and 5 Tankbustas with 2 Bomb Squigs in a Trukk with a Ram is really, really good.

Trukks are an unreliable transport choice, and very often you are faced with armies that can neutralize them too easily. In their new codexes, Eldar got lots more S6 shooting, Tau got lots more S5, and Space marines got lots more Grav. All of those things are bad news for Trukks, and MANZ.

Furthermore as we've seen the rise of ITC as a dominant tourney format, and their missions having such a gigantic favoritism towards going 2nd, it makes units like MANZ that depend on going 1st much less viable in a competitive list. In many competitive games you have to reserve your Trukks, and Reserving MANZ is generally undercutting their usefulness. If you Reserve Tankbustas, they can usually contribute significantly on the turn they come in, and aren't nearly as wasted controlling backfield objectives.

I commonly dont get first with my orks. Its not hard to hide a trukk behind terrain. Unless you play on a board with next to no LoS block, in which case you are playing incorrectly. This game is suppose to be terrain dense, though nobody does it.

I'd go for MANz, but only because the rest of your list sounds a bit weak on bad-ass choppy-ness, and you're going to need some of that.

Both. A MANz Missile is amazing at dealing with a Troops/Fast Attack unit, since they can just overwhelm it with 2+ save and plenty of AP2 attacks back. However, they get stomped flat if you come up against Walkers. Even a Dreadnought can give them a serious problem I've found. Yes, you can upgrade to Killsaws for dat Armourbane, but you're still attacking second against something that will instant kill you with no save. God forbid if you have to take on an Imperial Knight.

That's where Tankbustas come in. You might get lucky and chip off a Hull Point with the rokkits, but its all the Meltabomb hits that does it. You'll lose the unit, but at the same time you've taken down a Knight.

Tankbustas all the way. Especially with the bomb squigs. 5 bustas in a trukk with 3 squigs is only 115 points. And that will get you three 2+ shots of rokkits. And then, if they do get to close combat they all have meltabombs. So they really will bring down almost any vehicle out there.

And I like the idea of comparing what special units do to what a squad of normal boyz can do. And ranged S8 is not in the Boyz' wheelhouse. however, getting in to melee with someone and wrecking it with a PK is something that both MANZ and Boyz can do.

Take both

In my 1850 list, i have 2 units of manz, 3 units of tankbustas, 5 units of trukboys and 3 units of bikers with 2 MA warbosses in the trukboys as well as a void shield with 3 shields for T1 protection and having both is great.

For instance tankbustas simply destroy and IK if they can attack, they are also good to make some eldar bikes jinx so your truks survive and can be a threat to most things.
Manz are great but have some hard counters too and are generally focused quickly

Having just played a game with one unit of each, the bust as scored me their FB, secured 2 objectives while still shooting, and downed about 120 points of random power armor dudes.

The MANz failed 3 charges and finally just got slagged by Lascannons.

Since grav , ignores cover and other AP2 being handed out like candy now to the new codex's. I don't see the manz being good for more than I charge then dying immediately

the_scotsman wrote:
Having just played a game with one unit of each, the bust as scored me their FB, secured 2 objectives while still shooting, and downed about 120 points of random power armor dudes.

The MANz failed 3 charges and finally just got slagged by Lascannons.

What if they didn't fail 3 charges?

 koooaei wrote:

the_scotsman wrote:
Having just played a game with one unit of each, the bust as scored me their FB, secured 2 objectives while still shooting, and downed about 120 points of random power armor dudes.

The MANz failed 3 charges and finally just got slagged by Lascannons.

What if they didn't fail 3 charges?

And what if the tankbustas didn't hit anything with their shooting? Bringing a hypothetical situation up in an anecdotal argument is an exercise in futility.

He is just saying what happened in his last game. And honestly, failing 3 charges with any unit is unlucky, ESPECIALLY when using a unit with 'ere we go. But MANZ are so reliant on getting to combat whereas tankbustas can do well in both shooting and combat.

True dat.

If they hadn't failed they'd have died taking out a nasty Thunderwolf unit, and the second time they'd have killed some long fangs.

To be fair it was a 9" charge then a 8" charge, but my overall point is I favor Tankbustas because with bomb squigs, melta bombs and tank hunter they are quite possibly the most reliable unit in the ork codex.

 Icculus wrote:
And what if the tankbustas didn't hit anything with their shooting? Bringing a hypothetical situation up in an anecdotal argument is an exercise in futility.

He is just saying what happened in his last game. And honestly, failing 3 charges with any unit is unlucky, ESPECIALLY when using a unit with 'ere we go. But MANZ are so reliant on getting to combat whereas tankbustas can do well in both shooting and combat.

I think the point koooaei is making is that the_scotsman's post sounds a bit like he is critical of MANz just because they got very unlucky with charge rolls in this particular game, which isn't really fair.

I wouldn't say tankbustas are good at both shooting and combat. They are only really good at shooting if you take them in large numbers (due to BS2), otherwise you get some opportunistic pot shots and that's about it. And they are only good in combat against vehicles, whereas the only thing MANz can't pulverise are units that you could and should be targeting with boyz anyway.

If we are talking about taking a large number of tankbustas in a battlewagon or gunwagon then this is a bit of an apples vs oranges comparison to me (and not really what the OP was getting at), but personally I would rather take flash gitz for this role.

Don't get me wrong, I take a small tankbusta squad and they are a fantastic unit for their points. But if you put a gun to my head I would go with MANz, especially as a "missile" unit.

Yeah I get what Koooai was saying and really meganobz shouldnt fail 3 charges in a game. and I would feel unlucky if my MANZ failed one charge.

Which is exactly why you put them in a trukk. You get a total of 12' + charge first turn. You can even add a boarding plank if you feel like paying for it. With tankbustas, you have to rely on ork shooting, which I find much less reliable than assaulting.

Take Both ...One of my favorite tactics is to add a Big MEk MA to a unit of hard boyz or with Tankbustas..(and a 5+ invul save on there ride is not a bad thing ..) Lots of options ..Or you could take Ghazzes Bully Boyz as a det and the tankbustas in the CAD ...you have options lots of options..