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So I've been messing around with my new X-Wing stuff, and I've been trying to get a feel for maneuvering around the 3x3 board with some basic 50-point lists: four Academy Pilots vs. a T-70 X-Wing and a T-65 with Integrated Astromech and various combinations of upgrades (usually R2-D2). While I've learned a lot about how to maneuver as a formation (inner speed vs. outer speed on turns and banks) and some basic openings, I have yet to win while flying Imperials. I just can't seem to grasp the humble TIE/In Fighter.

Against the Rebels, the TIE just feels flimsy and underpowered. with only three hull and no shields, it dies to even a single X-Wing. It is more agile than X-Wings, but red dice always seems to trump green dice. Evade feels like a wash to me; I know that it's mathematically better in most cases, but unless you're at Range 3 it just feels like it doesn't cancel enough damage and I would be better served with Focus. Barrel Roll is very powerful in a game that's all about positioning, but I can never seem to do it in the right way so as to both get into an optimal position and maintain formation.

Compared to this, the Rebels have an advantage in Pilot Skill (letting them shoot first) and durability, as well as a surprising degree of maneuverability. I can't tell you how many times I've wished for a Speed 1 Bank in a TIE, and the X-Wings turn just as well as the TIE at Speeds 2 and 3. If things get too tangled, you can use the Speed 4 K-Turn to both disengage and get into position for another attack. They have low agility, but combined with their shields and the TIE's low firepower I can barely chip off one T-70's shields. The raw firepower of an X-Wing up close with a Focus token can overwhelm virtually any defense the TIE fighter can apply.

Is there something I'm missing in the TIE/In? Am I just playing the game wrong? I've heard that the game is much more balanced at the standard 100 points; is this true?

You're missing something. The TIE fighter is one of the best ships in the game from a pure math perspective (matched only by the z-95 in some circumstances, by a very small margin) so if you're not winning with it the problem is in how you're using it. Three things that are important with the TIE fighter:

1) Concentrate fire. Make sure all of your TIEs are hitting the same target and quickly kill it, don't get split up and damage multiple ships without killing any of them. This is especially important if you're facing R2-D2, since shield damage isn't permanent.

2) Range 1 is where you kill stuff. Your 12-point ships start throwing buckets of red dice. Get all four TIEs at range 1 of an x-wing and you can kill it in one turn with a bit of luck, and if you don't kill it it's sure going to be taking damage. TIEs don't want to sit at range and snipe, get in close ASAP unless the only available approach angle is completely suicidal.

3) BLOCK. You move first, you have a good dial, and you can barrel roll to fine-tune your position. Standard TIE swarm strategy is for one ship to block, deny the target it's actions, and set up the others for a range-1 kill shot. Then next turn you block it again and repeat the process, never letting your target maneuver freely.

Also, TIE fighters can work in a pure swarm of academy pilots, but usually you'll support them with Howlrunner (re-rolling attack dice for the whole formation boosts their firepower to absurd efficiency levels) and/or promote them to black squadron pilots with crack shot to shoot before other generics and guarantee a kill. Alternatively, you'll take 2-4 TIE fighters as meatshields and blockers for aces like Vader or Soontir Fel. Those academy pilots might not do much damage directly but they can pin targets in place for the aces and set up easy wins.

 TheNewBlood wrote:
So I've been messing around with my new X-Wing stuff, and I've been trying to get a feel for maneuvering around the 3x3 board with some basic 50-point lists: four Academy Pilots vs. a T-70 X-Wing and a T-65 with Integrated Astromech and various combinations of upgrades (usually R2-D2). While I've learned a lot about how to maneuver as a formation (inner speed vs. outer speed on turns and banks) and some basic openings, I have yet to win while flying Imperials. I just can't seem to grasp the humble TIE/In Fighter.

At 50 points, a T-70 X-wing and a regular X-wing, both with Integrated Astromech (and one with R2-D2!) is probably better than four Academy Pilots. They work best in large groups (six or more) or when they have an ace backing them up (my preferred Imperial list for the longest time was a decked out TIE Phantom (Whisper) with a mini swarm of four TIEs anchored by Howlruner).

Against the Rebels, the TIE just feels flimsy and underpowered. with only three hull and no shields, it dies to even a single X-Wing. It is more agile than X-Wings, but red dice always seems to trump green dice. Evade feels like a wash to me; I know that it's mathematically better in most cases, but unless you're at Range 3 it just feels like it doesn't cancel enough damage and I would be better served with Focus. Barrel Roll is very powerful in a game that's all about positioning, but I can never seem to do it in the right way so as to both get into an optimal position and maintain formation.

Yes, the TIE fighter is flimsy, which is why the cheapest generic only costs 12 points and has a pilot skill of one. The Academy Pilot is the most efficient ship in the game and is the benchmark by which all other ships are measured. A group of them buffed by Howlrunner becomes even more efficient, which is why you usually see her in a swarm.

On a ship with three agility, the math will always favor focus over evade to negating incoming damage. As for barrel rolling, that is just going to come with practice.

Compared to this, the Rebels have an advantage in Pilot Skill (letting them shoot first) and durability, as well as a surprising degree of maneuverability. I can't tell you how many times I've wished for a Speed 1 Bank in a TIE, and the X-Wings turn just as well as the TIE at Speeds 2 and 3. If things get too tangled, you can use the Speed 4 K-Turn to both disengage and get into position for another attack. They have low agility, but combined with their shields and the TIE's low firepower I can barely chip off one T-70's shields. The raw firepower of an X-Wing up close with a Focus token can overwhelm virtually any defense the TIE fighter can apply.

You've learned an important lesson: don't be at range one of an X-wing! Both X-wings are sold ships that can put a surprising amount of damage on a target.

Is there something I'm missing in the TIE/In? Am I just playing the game wrong? I've heard that the game is much more balanced at the standard 100 points; is this true?

Yes, it's very much true. The best uses for Academy Pilot TIE fighters are firepower en masse against low agility ships and blocking your opponent, leaving them actionless and vulnerable to other ships in your list. At 50 points it's hard to do both of those.

Pretty much what's been said above.

Guide to using TIE Fighters:

a) As noted, close range is your friend. If a pair of X-wings close to range 1, you're getting 2 extra red dice on attacks that don't normally have trouble hitting anyway. If four tie fighters close, you've got four extra red dice, and are moving none-too-accurate 2-die attacks to much more dangerous 3-die attacks.

b) Focus is your friend. At long range, TIE fighters should aim to survive - a focus token on four green dice is actually better than an evade, plus if you end up not needing it, you can use it to improve your shot. Evade is for when you're at close range and are going to be shot at with no opportunity to respond - and even then, consider if Barrel Roll would be better - not being shot at in the first place is the best form of defence.

c) Blocking is critical. Move one ship into position to pin the fighter in place whilst everyone else opens up on it. That's the big advantage of expendable PS1 pilots. This is especially useful against R2-D2 because if your opponent wants to use it he's nailed to his more restricted green dial.

d) Don't just joust. TIE fighters are amongst the best jousters in the game...normally. In small games against fighters with upgrades when you've not allowed them any themselves...they've got to do work to catch up. Cluster the rocks up as close as you can, and draw the fight into the rocks. When there are many obstacles in the combat zone, Barrel Roll and a Hard 1 turn become much more important!


The game is massively better balanced at 100 points. You'll notice that none of the 'teaching scenarios' uses R2-D2, because recovering 1 shield a turn makes a massive difference in a small game. In a 100 point game, 8 TIE fighters can blow an X-wing apart in one pass if he's dumb enough to let them all get a shot at once.

Also, consider using some of the named pilots. TIE fighters have some of the best named pilots in the game (in terms of the quality of their abilities compared to how much 'extra' you pay for them).

Named pilots like Dark Curse and Howlrunner are amazing, whilst the Black Squadron Pilot is the game's cheapest Elite Pilot Talent - making it superb when paired up with cheap talents like Crack Shot for a pittance of points, or Draw Their Fire or Wingman to support a more important ship.

Yeah, don't use R2-D2 at less than 100 points. At that level, you can't concentrate as much firepower to burn him down before he can heal tons.

TIEs are fine. Worlds 2015 had 267 players and there were several TIE Fighter lists in the top 32.

https://community.fantasyflightgames.com/topic/192577-2015-worlds-results/

Peregrine wrote:You're missing something. The TIE fighter is one of the best ships in the game from a pure math perspective (matched only by the z-95 in some circumstances, by a very small margin) so if you're not winning with it the problem is in how you're using it. Three things that are important with the TIE fighter:

1) Concentrate fire. Make sure all of your TIEs are hitting the same target and quickly kill it, don't get split up and damage multiple ships without killing any of them. This is especially important if you're facing R2-D2, since shield damage isn't permanent.

2) Range 1 is where you kill stuff. Your 12-point ships start throwing buckets of red dice. Get all four TIEs at range 1 of an x-wing and you can kill it in one turn with a bit of luck, and if you don't kill it it's sure going to be taking damage. TIEs don't want to sit at range and snipe, get in close ASAP unless the only available approach angle is completely suicidal.

3) BLOCK. You move first, you have a good dial, and you can barrel roll to fine-tune your position. Standard TIE swarm strategy is for one ship to block, deny the target it's actions, and set up the others for a range-1 kill shot. Then next turn you block it again and repeat the process, never letting your target maneuver freely.

Also, TIE fighters can work in a pure swarm of academy pilots, but usually you'll support them with Howlrunner (re-rolling attack dice for the whole formation boosts their firepower to absurd efficiency levels) and/or promote them to black squadron pilots with crack shot to shoot before other generics and guarantee a kill. Alternatively, you'll take 2-4 TIE fighters as meatshields and blockers for aces like Vader or Soontir Fel. Those academy pilots might not do much damage directly but they can pin targets in place for the aces and set up easy wins.

I figured it was something I was doing wrong!

I definitely found that TIEs were much more powerful when shooting as a formation up close. Seems all that struggle moving as a formation does pay off. Only problem is, the X-Wing is even better at Range 1. I still haven't mastered leveraging the TIE's numerical advantage to put the X-Wings out of position, but I'm wiling to bet that will come with practice.

I know how powerful blocking can be; some of the few times that I was actually able to damage the Rebels was when I actively got in their way. Unfortunately, more often than not I ended up blocking myself T_____T. I'm still learning the fine art of maneuvering vs. where my opponent is going to be rather than where they currently are.

ScootyPuffJunior wrote:

 TheNewBlood wrote:
So I've been messing around with my new X-Wing stuff, and I've been trying to get a feel for maneuvering around the 3x3 board with some basic 50-point lists: four Academy Pilots vs. a T-70 X-Wing and a T-65 with Integrated Astromech and various combinations of upgrades (usually R2-D2). While I've learned a lot about how to maneuver as a formation (inner speed vs. outer speed on turns and banks) and some basic openings, I have yet to win while flying Imperials. I just can't seem to grasp the humble TIE/In Fighter.

At 50 points, a T-70 X-wing and a regular X-wing, both with Integrated Astromech (and one with R2-D2!) is probably better than four Academy Pilots. They work best in large groups (six or more) or when they have an ace backing them up (my preferred Imperial list for the longest time was a decked out TIE Phantom (Whisper) with a mini swarm of four TIEs anchored by Howlruner).

You don't say!

From what I've read on the FFG forums, regeneration is one of the most complained-about mechanics in the game. I also hear that eight TIE fighters at 100 points is the standard by which all other tournament lists are judged. I can beleive it too; with that many ships on the table, it's impossible for your opponent to not collide with one!

ScootyPuffJunior wrote:

Against the Rebels, the TIE just feels flimsy and underpowered. with only three hull and no shields, it dies to even a single X-Wing. It is more agile than X-Wings, but red dice always seems to trump green dice. Evade feels like a wash to me; I know that it's mathematically better in most cases, but unless you're at Range 3 it just feels like it doesn't cancel enough damage and I would be better served with Focus. Barrel Roll is very powerful in a game that's all about positioning, but I can never seem to do it in the right way so as to both get into an optimal position and maintain formation.

Yes, the TIE fighter is flimsy, which is why the cheapest generic only costs 12 points and has a pilot skill of one. The Academy Pilot is the most efficient ship in the game and is the benchmark by which all other ships are measured. A group of them buffed by Howlrunner becomes even more efficient, which is why you usually see her in a swarm.

On a ship with three agility, the math will always favor focus over evade to negating incoming damage. As for barrel rolling, that is just going to come with practice.

Ah, I see; I had it exactly backwards. I can definitely tell that Barrel Roll is powerful, just that I haven't yet mastered how best to use it. Having a high-PS ace to buff the TIE fighters would make things a lot more livable.

ScootyPuffJunior wrote:

Compared to this, the Rebels have an advantage in Pilot Skill (letting them shoot first) and durability, as well as a surprising degree of maneuverability. I can't tell you how many times I've wished for a Speed 1 Bank in a TIE, and the X-Wings turn just as well as the TIE at Speeds 2 and 3. If things get too tangled, you can use the Speed 4 K-Turn to both disengage and get into position for another attack. They have low agility, but combined with their shields and the TIE's low firepower I can barely chip off one T-70's shields. The raw firepower of an X-Wing up close with a Focus token can overwhelm virtually any defense the TIE fighter can apply.

You've learned an important lesson: don't be at range one of an X-wing! Both X-wings are sold ships that can put a surprising amount of damage on a target.

Alternatively: always try to get in Range 1 with your X-Wings.

I guess I just need more practice maneuvering, and to get some expansions so I can play at 100 points. It's good to hear that the game is a lot more balanced at that points level.

Good stuff in this thread.

The lack of 1 straight and 1 bank maneuvers can really throw off new players, since a TIE fighter can't easily pursue an enemy ship that is performing 1 straight and 1 bank maneuvers (you eventually overshoot them). You have to get away from the mindset of "turn towards where my opponent is" and towards the mindset of "turn towards where my opponent will be the next turn, or the turn after that".