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I've had a couple of not-great showings with wave serpents lately and it has shaken my faith in them a bit. Do you guys still think they're useful as a generally-decent unit, serve a more niche role, or should be expunged from the Eldar army list altogether?

They are still rediculously good, they just are now a transport again rather than a tank. If you hold on to that shield until you only have one hull point left then you're doing it right. Give them holofields and laugh maniacly as everyone has to poor a ridiculous number of shots into putting one down.

If you're trying to make tip-top lists, they don't use them too much because they're no longer worth it when those points could buy you almost half a Wraithknight.

If you're to just have a strong unit though, yeah, they're still quite good. You just need to be a bit more strategic in their use. They're not as strong as before, but are still quite effective! Going all-in on Serpents is no longer a good idea, you'll need to mix them with other things. Having that extra layer of protect with the Serpent Shield is very useful at surviving lots of stuff. It's still one of the best transports in the game.

In any other codex they'd be top of any competitive list but with the new eldar dex emphasis on jetbikes and wraithknights they often don't make the cut. Not like it's a bad problem to have of course.

While they would NOT be top of almost any other Codex (unless going for some "free points" builds), they are pretty good. Aside from being able to carry Wraithguard and more reliably transport Dragons, the Falcon performs a similar role often better. For 120+ points you probably want more from a unit than an extra turn of movement... The Serpent can do it, but dont forget the Falcon might as well.

Goobi2 wrote:
While they would NOT be top of almost any other Codex (unless going for some "free points" builds), they are pretty good. Aside from being able to carry Wraithguard and more reliably transport Dragons, the Falcon performs a similar role often better. For 120+ points you probably want more from a unit than an extra turn of movement... The Serpent can do it, but dont forget the Falcon might as well.

That's roughly what I'm thinking - I feel like there's a roughly similar role and points cost between taking Falcons + Fire Dragons as Wave Serpents + Wraithguard, just trading some more "standard" firepower for the almighty D.

They actually a survivable vehicle. And they have great weapon options.

In terms of what a transport is SUPPOSE to do, theyre amazingly strong.

In terms of what people were using them for? terrible. That shield was described as a last resort attack, yet people spammed it. That needed to be nerfed to the damn ground when people bring min troops to get the transport and not the unit IN the transport.

From what i know, nothing else changed about them.

I have had success with them but obviously they are no scatterbikes. I still think a list with 3-4 is hard for a lot of people expecially when a wraithknight is taking some of the heavy fire from them.

Goobi2 wrote:
While they would NOT be top of almost any other Codex (unless going for some "free points" builds), they are pretty good. Aside from being able to carry Wraithguard and more reliably transport Dragons, the Falcon performs a similar role often better. For 120+ points you probably want more from a unit than an extra turn of movement... The Serpent can do it, but dont forget the Falcon might as well.

The Falcon is ineffective in the role of a tank, and inefficient in the role of a transport. It lacks the utility of a Razorback, and is much less survivable than the similarly-costed Wave Serpent. If you want a tank, get a Fire Prism. If you want a transport, get a Wave Serpent. Ignore the Falcon; it simply doesn't do enough to justify its points.

Unlike in the previous edition, the Wave Serpent is not a battle tank. It is a means of either protecting a high value target for your opponent into position, such as Wraithguard or Fire Dragons, or a means of taking large units of Eldar infantry into the midfield to score objectives. It can also engage light vehicles and infantry with a high degree of success while doing so, but it weak against heavy armour and melee units.

Fully kitted out at 140 points, the Wave Serpent is the most expensive dedicated transport in the game. It is also without a doubt the best.

 TheNewBlood wrote:


Fully kitted out at 140 points, the Wave Serpent is the most expensive dedicated transport in the game. It is also without a doubt the best.

Landraiders are also dedicated transports

I'd love to have a vehicle like them as a marine player.

 koooaei wrote:

 TheNewBlood wrote:


Fully kitted out at 140 points, the Wave Serpent is the most expensive dedicated transport in the game. It is also without a doubt the best.

Landraiders are also dedicated transports

Derp. Forgot about those.

Allow me to re-phrase my statement: Wave Serpents are the most expensive dedicated transports that are still cost-effective.

I've been out of the game since August so correct me if anything has changed.
I was glad when they downgraded the serp (although the rest of the Eldar dex was a slap in the face). But I think people are suffering from The Hangover 2 syndrome by comparing the new serp to the old one and finding it lacking... as a battle tank.
It can still most definitely fit the role of a battle tank very well, but rather than a master of all trades battle tank, it is an anti infantry battle tank now.
Lets compare it to a baal predator which is the main BA battle tank (and nobody would say that is not a battle tank). The serp has greater firepower, greater manouverability, greater durability, does not take up a heavy slot (still annoyed that Baals no longer take the fast slot) and is around the same points cost. That is at no point taking into account its capacity.
The Baal is damn awful yes, but if the Baal had the increased durability, firepower and manouverability of the serp (plus not taking that damn heavy slot), then nobody would be saying that it is a poor battle tank.

Battle wagons are pretty cost effective too.

110 points base...

As a transport, they are awesome. If you try to use them as the mainstay of your force, you will be disapointed.

Anybody run them with Starcannons? Seems like that might not be too bad when paired with the underslung shurican.

Deschenus Maximus wrote:
As a transport, they are awesome. If you try to use them as the mainstay of your force, you will be disapointed.

Anybody run them with Starcannons? Seems like that might not be too bad when paired with the underslung shurican.

I run them with Starcannons and an under slang Shuri cannon. The amount of cover certainly favors the scatter laser but when you get to shoot termies that walked out in the open it is priceless

Someone still uses terminators? Lol, autolose for them.

When I run WSs, they have either BLs or Starcannons.

For me, the Falcon's formation drop-on-the-spot feature makes them better transports for small squads.

I sometimes run a mix of starcannons + shuriken cannons alongside other variants so they can whittle down MEQ/TEQ units or put some wounds on a character.

I mostly see shuriken cannon scatter laser.

The main use I've seen for serpents is move 12" flatout and then unload a squad of d-scythes next turn. If it moves and disembarks on the same turn, the wraith guard can hit a target 19" away (6" move, 6" disembark, 7" template)...pretty good threat bubble for 5 D-weapons that auto-hit. If you take the wraithguard from the battlehost you can add another 6" to that (25" total, who needs an archon anymore?).