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I've never gotten too far into the game, I have a couple hundred dollars worth of space marines yet I've never played an actual game with them. I'm sitting at work theory crafting an army, using a gakky browser based army builder that seems pretty glitchy and I keep wanting to google stats and game information yet I can't find any. Are there any wiki's that have actual useful information other than lore? For example, if I wanted to know the armor values or unit capacity of a rhino or the save values of space marines, is there a wiki that has this information? I'm guessing there isn't because they want to force players to buy the books to be able to play but cmon, the game is expensive enough as it is, I shouldn't have to pay simply to theory craft an army in my head. Even so, the books aren't that useful as I have to manually search through the book to find the information whereas with a wiki, I can type in what I'm looking for and find it instantly. Are there any tools like this out there?

In before you're told this website isn't used for that stuff.

So considering you didn't tell me there IS an online database with useful information, I'm gonna assume there isn't one?

kNyne83 wrote:
So considering you didn't tell me there IS an online database with useful information, I'm gonna assume there isn't one?

In all seriousness, I don't think there is. Unless you wanna pirate the PDFs of the codexes, but that's highly frowned upon on here, and people aren't going to outright tell you stats on units either.

I'm not expecting people to tell me the stats, I was hoping there was an online database. Considering I've spent hundreds of dollars on units and still haven't been able to play the game I don't really feel bad about pirating the codices and even that isn't what I'm looking for. I definitely wouldn't pay the prices for the physical versions because of how not useful they are. I wouldn't even pay the price for a digital version because even using CTRL + F sucks, sifting through hundreds of occurrences of a phrase isn't easy. What would make this game so much ridiculously easier would be a database with unit information and an army builder.

In the past GW's legal department has been very unkind to those who post "useful Information" online. Generally, 40k sites looking to stick around for any amount of time don't allow discussions to go too in-depth into statlines and points costs.

http://www.battlescribe.net/

then just get the latest 40k repository

awesome app, stats for all armies and even most special rules

if you print an army it also prints most of the special rules along with it

I'll try and post something useful rather than chastisement.

Your best bet is an app like Battlescribe. It's not perfect but it has the majority of the information you seek. It's also got a few errors on it BUT it's free and is as good as you'll get without a current codex.

Before any scrubs whine in response to this advice and say *don't use it just buy the codex* nark-off, it's obvious the codex would be better BUT it's nice to see what you can do BEFORE you sink money into something only to discover it's not worth it.

EDIT: Chaos posted at the same time as me - follow the link he gave

Ugh, I'm remembering my original frustrations with this game. I absolutely love the idea of the gameplay yet they make it so difficult to just play the damn game. Like I said I've never even gotten to play a game yet! Like I'm not into lore, I'm not into painting, I'm not into having to read hundreds of pages to understand how every rule interacts with one another. Modern games make this convenient and do the hard work for you so you can just play the damn game.

So how does battlescribe get away with giving out all of this information?

Was also about to start shilling for battlescribe, was surprised people were being so coy about bit considering it has its own feedback thread here.

It's not a valid substitute for the book but is an ideal resource for assembling lists on the go.

kNyne83 wrote:
I'm not expecting people to tell me the stats, I was hoping there was an online database. Considering I've spent hundreds of dollars on units and still haven't been able to play the game I don't really feel bad about pirating the codices and even that isn't what I'm looking for. I definitely wouldn't pay the prices for the physical versions because of how not useful they are. I wouldn't even pay the price for a digital version because even using CTRL + F sucks, sifting through hundreds of occurrences of a phrase isn't easy. What would make this game so much ridiculously easier would be a database with unit information and an army builder.

Well, there's no database to my knowledge, but I use the mobile Battlescribe for army building, which is an awesome app. It doesn't give you unit information other than occasional wargear and what slot it goes in.

Most people I have met will not play you if you don't have the rules of a unit. Battlescribe makes mistakes and is NOT a replacement for a codex. If you want to play the game, you have to have the rules for it. If you want to play monopoly, you have to have the rules for it. That's how games work.

Battlescribe is a great additional tool. Make a quick list, see how it looks, browse a new unit or army, Theorycraft as you said. That's awesome. If you're going to play that army for any period of time, you should have the rules, you should go over your list using the codex to make sure the weapon configurations and the points costs are legitimate and you don't miss out on the special rules that might help or hinder your army.

It takes practice and usually someone more experienced to get all the ins and outs of the game and then you'll simply remember the basics. There is a lot to remember and there is no resource like Infinity's Wiki. Just takes practice but that doesn't mean you should expect shortcuts. But Battlescribe is a great way to make a quick list without needed all the references involved, and then knowing afterwards what books to buy.

Any place that actually has a database of those is usually sued into oblivion by GW cuz no one would pay for their books otherwise.

However if you must have something like that, I believe the core rulebook has a page in the back with all the unit stats and whatnots in convenient chart form. Weapons too, but not race-special ones like Volkite weapons or such (at least, I don't think so, never had the patience to look through all of it).

Generally though, most people here can recite at least their own codex by heart and some things are just common knowledge. Like Power Armor always means a 3+ armor save and Terminator Armor is a 2+/5++ save.

If you want the rules for your units, just buy a codex^^
But there isn't any website with every information.

kNyne83 wrote:
Ugh, I'm remembering my original frustrations with this game. I absolutely love the idea of the gameplay yet they make it so difficult to just play the damn game. Like I said I've never even gotten to play a game yet! Like I'm not into lore, I'm not into painting, I'm not into having to read hundreds of pages to understand how every rule interacts with one another. Modern games make this convenient and do the hard work for you so you can just play the damn game.

So how does battlescribe get away with giving out all of this information?

How can you 'love the gameplay' if you've never played a game?

You don't like the lore. You dont like painting. You don't like 'digging into' the stats and mechanics. You don't want to invest in the game. Or do 'hard work'. I have to wonder if this really is a game for you then. I mean, you're obviously not interested in some of the main draws and features, so really, what's the point?

Video games are probably a better fit for you mate if just 'playing the damn game' is what you're after. That, or board games .

It's not my argument, but it doesn't seem fair for him to be jumped on.

He said specifically that he likes the IDEA of the game play, so it looks like it would be fun playing the game but he's not had the chance to play.

It's like you may like the idea of flying a plane but you've not had the chance to do it - doesn't stop you watching youtube videos or reading magazines on it.

Many people get others to build and paint armis for them, it's not unusual. They just want to play the game too. It's only the greenstuff sadists and modellers like me who enjoy tinkering and making stuff - even I get a bit bored with painting though.

I don't see what aspect of the game you like if you don't want to model, paint, read anything or pay a little bit of money more than you have invested into the game to play.

40k is a complicated game sometimes needlessly so but it is what it is. Additionally I would likely not play against someone who had no rules.

Well being able to easily get a drop-in game is something that's appealing for most people. MTG actually has a few classifications of player types and I think this one fits into the one where they like the big monsters; they like doing crap in the game. MTG actually made a product tailored to these kind of players in the form of Event Decks, and the new Start Collecting sets is basically this too.

With that, I would suggest three things to him:

1.) get one of the new Start Collecting Boxes. They will probably have all the rules you need to play along with a usable build for each unit straight out of the box so if you don't want to do the number crunching you can just build them that way.

2.) Get Dark Vengeance. It has 6 scenarios using the models in the kit and they're all snap-fit, having little variations and each scenario is written with relative balance to both forces.

3.) Consider Kill Team. The restrictions on it means that bigger cheese, like flyers, MCs, powerful psykers and whatnot, don't show up at all so listbuilding is quick and easy. (for example, my Kill team list is literally as many combi-flamer Sternguards I can fit into it). Not to mention it's easy to do a quick game.

 Wulfmar wrote:
It's
He said specifically that he likes the IDEA of the game play, so it looks like it would be fun playing the game but he's not had the chance to play.

As well as having zero interest in the lore, painting the models, digging into the game, investing in the game buying the sourcebooks etc.

 Wulfmar wrote:
It's not my argument, but it doesn't seem fair for him to be jumped on.

I'm not jumping on him though. Internet and tone is my guess.

My point stands though - he might say he likes the 'idea' of the game (odd claim though- I mean, what part of the 'idea' is it that appeals, when he clearly doesn't like so much of what makes it what it ist!) , but if he doesn't seem to like any of the other key features of what makes it so engrossing (you know, painting dudes, the lore, digging into the rules and making up your listz, and so on, then what's the point? It seems to me thst it's a bad fit.

Hence my point that other types of games might be a better fit. Especially if you just want to pick something up and play. He said he just wanted to get on with just playing The game, and not having to worry about learning the game, reading the lore, or painting the models. Board games allow this. Computer games allow this. Table top wargames have a lot more involved, cater to a far more specialised niche and the user workload is so much higher as well as being far more time intensive. Not everyone likes this, or wants this, and that's perfectly fine.

I have played small skirmishes with my friends, I've watched people play and I've theory crafted a few armies (So yes I do like digging into the stats and mechanics, but I would prefer if they were in a digital location thus making sorting/searching easier). I like the strategy behind the game, there's no other game like it. In an ideal world, a digital version would be made where all the complicated rule interactions that normally cause you to manually search a book to find the answer, are instead solved my milliseconds of computer calculations, thus allowing you to play the actual game.

This isn't a problem most people have. You just have to be patient and learn the rules like you learn anything else. Slowly and over time. You learn with the book open, then know where to look for the things you don't know about. It's not a crazy system as it is.

And I mean, the thing you want doesn't exist. That's really the long and short of it. You have to use the tools given.

 godardc wrote:
If you want the rules for your units, just buy a codex^^
But there isn't any website with every information.

To do otherwise is Heresy.

J/k but really buy the codex, its worth it for the fluff, and try and buy it from your local game store, nothing beats supporting local shops.

Like people have said, Battlescribe is amazingly useful.

kNyne83 wrote:
I have played small skirmishes with my friends, I've watched people play and I've theory crafted a few armies (So yes I do like digging into the stats and mechanics, but I would prefer if they were in a digital location thus making sorting/searching easier). I like the strategy behind the game, there's no other game like it. In an ideal world, a digital version would be made where all the complicated rule interactions that normally cause you to manually search a book to find the answer, are instead solved my milliseconds of computer calculations, thus allowing you to play the actual game.

So basically, you want to play a computer game. That's fine. There's plenty out there that will scratch that itch for you far better than forty-k.

But part of the charm of table top wargames is those books and dice rolling and so on. It's an older way of doing things, that harken back to an age before computers were a thing. And some people like that. It's the same reason that some people prefer the theatre as a medium over fancy cgi based blockbuster movies.

 godardc wrote:
If you want the rules for your units, just buy a codex^^
But there isn't any website with every information.

There absolutely are. We just cannot link to them.

kNyne83 wrote:
Ugh, I'm remembering my original frustrations with this game. I absolutely love the idea of the gameplay yet they make it so difficult to just play the damn game. Like I said I've never even gotten to play a game yet! Like I'm not into lore, I'm not into painting, I'm not into having to read hundreds of pages to understand how every rule interacts with one another. Modern games make this convenient and do the hard work for you so you can just play the damn game.

So how does battlescribe get away with giving out all of this information?

40k is learned the easiest by just jumping right in

99% of the game boils down to:

roll to see who deploys first

-deploy armies

take alternating turns (game lasts 5 - 7 turns)

Each turn:

-Move your guys (infantry 6, bikers 12, lookup for others)

-Shoot your guys (one unit at a time, shooting rules are pretty straight forward)

-Declare and roll for assaults

-Fight combats

The easiest way to learn is to start very small (1 unit vs 1 unit) and just follow the rules for a turn phase by phase. Once you have the basics down its just the same rules but with more units.

On youtube Miniwargaming did a pretty good how to play 40k sets of videos going over each phase. You can also find people recording playing the starter set missions from Dark Vengeance (which is how I learned to play a couple years ago)



Automatically Appended Next Post:
Someone just posted this on another thread, a guy made a 40k cheat sheet here with most of the rules shortened for quick reference:
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/597998.page