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Okay, so the new 40k Space Marine collection kit comes with a tactical squad, a captain in terminator armor and a venerable dreadnought. With those 3 units in the movement phase, you can have a captain nominate a unit within 12 inches of him to shoot instead of moving in the moving phase and then shooting again in the shooting phase (but no running). I'm guessing the most effective way to use this formation is to stick them in cover, where they can dish enough dakka so movement ain't a problem.

So assuming that you were to use that formation on its own (most likely as an allied detachment), which chapter do you think would benefit the most from it?

Personally, I'd say it's a tie between Iron Hands, Imperial Fists and Ultramarines.

For Iron Hands, you get an army that can roll a feel no pain and the dread and captain will have It Will Not Die as well. If these were all stuck in cover and were firing some long range weapons, they could be devastating and hardy.

For Ultramarines and Imperial Fists, you can re roll certain weapons/bolter hits of one respectively with their tactics.

Definitely Imperial Fists or Raptors.

Raptors would be a solid choice, assuming you're in range to do the whole Rending thing twice.

Psh, nevermind any of that. Just stick the captain with the tactical squad in say, a Plasma Obliterator or Aquila Stronghold and watch the hammer drop.

 Crazyterran wrote:
Psh, nevermind any of that. Just stick the captain with the tactical squad in say, a Plasma Obliterator or Aquila Stronghold and watch the hammer drop.

...dude...That is insane. Now I need to get some of the fortifications. Wreck stuff good.

Nah, Aquila Strongpoint. Watch the opponent cry.

The real question is if the Firespear Strike Force bypasses the Vortex Missile Aquilla Strongpoint's One Missile per Shooting Phase rule. Since you aren't firing in the Shooting Phase when you are shooting during the Movement Phase, could you fire two Vortex Missiles a turn? Hell, if you combat squad the Tactical Squad, could each squad fire a Gun Emplacement twice using the Captain's bonus shooting. Hell, get two Aquilla Strongpoints, put a Combat Squad in each, and park the Captain in between the two. Enjoy the destruction you can rain down on EVERYTHING.

 casvalremdeikun wrote:
The real question is if the Firespear Strike Force bypasses the Vortex Missile Aquilla Strongpoint's One Missile per Shooting Phase rule. Since you aren't firing in the Shooting Phase when you are shooting during the Movement Phase, could you fire two Vortex Missiles a turn? Hell, if you combat squad the Tactical Squad, could each squad fire a Gun Emplacement twice using the Captain's bonus shooting. Hell, get two Aquilla Strongpoints, put a Combat Squad in each, and park the Captain in between the two. Enjoy the destruction you can rain down on EVERYTHING.

please no

StevetheDestroyeOfWorlds wrote:

 casvalremdeikun wrote:
The real question is if the Firespear Strike Force bypasses the Vortex Missile Aquilla Strongpoint's One Missile per Shooting Phase rule. Since you aren't firing in the Shooting Phase when you are shooting during the Movement Phase, could you fire two Vortex Missiles a turn? Hell, if you combat squad the Tactical Squad, could each squad fire a Gun Emplacement twice using the Captain's bonus shooting. Hell, get two Aquilla Strongpoints, put a Combat Squad in each, and park the Captain in between the two. Enjoy the destruction you can rain down on EVERYTHING.

please no

Best part, it is AV15. Good luck cracking that nut even if you survive the double tap of the macro-cannon. *Cackles maniacally*

 casvalremdeikun wrote:

StevetheDestroyeOfWorlds wrote:

 casvalremdeikun wrote:
The real question is if the Firespear Strike Force bypasses the Vortex Missile Aquilla Strongpoint's One Missile per Shooting Phase rule. Since you aren't firing in the Shooting Phase when you are shooting during the Movement Phase, could you fire two Vortex Missiles a turn? Hell, if you combat squad the Tactical Squad, could each squad fire a Gun Emplacement twice using the Captain's bonus shooting. Hell, get two Aquilla Strongpoints, put a Combat Squad in each, and park the Captain in between the two. Enjoy the destruction you can rain down on EVERYTHING.

please no

Best part, it is AV15. Good luck cracking that nut even if you survive the double tap of the macro-cannon. *Cackles maniacally*

Why must you be so evil
Whyyyyyyyyyyy

Give the Aquila Strongpoints a Void Shield too, just to be safe.

Good job, Dakka. We broke the game.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
Good job, Dakka. We broke the game.

Not any worse than GW and their Riptide Wings and 5 Wraithknights could. We just did a better job of it.

 casvalremdeikun wrote:

 Crazyterran wrote:
Psh, nevermind any of that. Just stick the captain with the tactical squad in say, a Plasma Obliterator or Aquila Stronghold and watch the hammer drop.

...dude...That is insane. Now I need to get some of the fortifications. Wreck stuff good.

We will do the Emperor's holy work, brother.

 Crazyterran wrote:

 casvalremdeikun wrote:

 Crazyterran wrote:
Psh, nevermind any of that. Just stick the captain with the tactical squad in say, a Plasma Obliterator or Aquila Stronghold and watch the hammer drop.

...dude...That is insane. Now I need to get some of the fortifications. Wreck stuff good.

We will do the Emperor's holy work, brother.

And it is even kinda fluffy. Crimson Fists and Imperial Fists are defense experts. They build something, park their butts into it, and then make the enemy pay dearly for having the audacity of trying to break the thing. So it makes perfect sense that they would have something like an Aquila Strongpoint to hunker down in. That plus two squads of Scouts, two squads of Sternguard, and Pedro Kantor. Ruin everything's day.

Rough Draft 1850 List:

 Crazyterran wrote:
Rough Draft 1850 List:

Spoiler:

Firespear Strikeforce: (UM Tactics)

Captain: Terminator Armour, Power Sword, Stormbolter

Tactical Squad: 5 men

Venerable Dread: Multimelta, Heavy Flamer, Drop Pod

Librarius Conclave: (UM tactics)

Tigurius

Librarian - ML2, Force Sword, Auspex

Librarian - ML2, Force Sword

CAD (UM Tactics):

Telion

Scouts: Boltguns, Landspeeder Storm
Scouts: Snipers, Cloaks

Centurion Devastators: 4 GC + Amps, 3x HB, Sgt has Omniscope and Missile Launcher

Aquila Strongpoint:

Main building: Macro Cannon, Voidshield
Bunker Annex: Escape hatch

Total: 1850

Ah, GW. Ruining friendships since Whenever GW Came To Be.

Which characters might give us an easier time getting first turn? I don't know off the top of my head.

Otherwise that's going to be a brutal list. I'd probably just run the Dread with Autocannons, as 4 shots at separate targets is cheap AND effective.

They really need to hire someone who is devious and actively trying to break the game and have them read over new rules. I've read and seen so many interviews of the game designers and they seem like nice guys but very much beer and pretzel play.

Eeem, don't you need to be inside the building to operate the gun, and by such can't be directly targeted by things, for example by the ability?

every army tbh that is set on more passive play or that makes use of backliners, as ive said elsewhere, park them in the back with some 36"ers, barebones captain by himself not even in a bloody squad to tie up guys that try to run away before the dread can charge, abuse the double tap against every cousin and brother that decided to drop from the sky and shoot you at close range

if someone dares the yolo rush across the sides then you have time to move into position, set out the good dishes and wait for there arrival.

good little formation if you are at a loss about what else to do with your army

also dark angels could make use of it as an allied detachment, run clan raukkan for gorgons chain terminator captain, get a better terminator captain then you normally could.. make good

 BoomWolf wrote:
Eeem, don't you need to be inside the building to operate the gun, and by such can't be directly targeted by things, for example by the ability?

Can you cite where this rule is? I have scanned Stronghold Assault and the BRB and can't find anything that limits embarked units from being targeted by special rules.

for a character, I don't know but a raven guard formation help getting fisrt turn, I believe.

 casvalremdeikun wrote:

 BoomWolf wrote:
Eeem, don't you need to be inside the building to operate the gun, and by such can't be directly targeted by things, for example by the ability?

Can you cite where this rule is? I have scanned Stronghold Assault and the BRB and can't find anything that limits embarked units from being targeted by special rules.

Basic transport rules and building rules in the BRB seems like the place, not stronghold.

I mean, for the same reasons units in rhinos can't be shot at, they are not physically THERE.

 BoomWolf wrote:

 casvalremdeikun wrote:

 BoomWolf wrote:
Eeem, don't you need to be inside the building to operate the gun, and by such can't be directly targeted by things, for example by the ability?

Can you cite where this rule is? I have scanned Stronghold Assault and the BRB and can't find anything that limits embarked units from being targeted by special rules.

Basic transport rules and building rules in the BRB seems like the place, not stronghold.

I mean, for the same reasons units in rhinos can't be shot at, they are not physically THERE.

There is absolutely nothing in the rules that states that the ability of embarked units from being subject to special abilities. And you second point falls apart when all the transport and building rules allow the embarked unit to do things like fire emplaced weapons or from fire points using their own rules. If they were not there, they wouldn't be able to do that. Heck, the Captain can even use his special rule if he is embarked as well. There is no limitation whatsoever on that.

 BoomWolf wrote:
Eeem, don't you need to be inside the building to operate the gun, and by such can't be directly targeted by things, for example by the ability?

Transport rules are clear that anything involving measuring to and from the unit are done to the vehicle instead.

 CrownAxe wrote:

 BoomWolf wrote:
Eeem, don't you need to be inside the building to operate the gun, and by such can't be directly targeted by things, for example by the ability?

Transport rules are clear that anything involving measuring to and from the unit are done to the vehicle instead.

So as long as the Captain is within 12" of the large section of the Aquila Strongpoint, I am good?