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So my main army has two full squads of Sternguard with five combi-Melta each in Drop Pods. They are my main Tank busting units. As of right now, I also have a squad of Devastators with four Lascannons. My question is, are the Lascannons the best options for the Devastators, or should I look into running one of my two other Devastator Squad. I have a squad of four Missile Launchers and another with four Heavy Bolters. Would either of these make sense to replace the Lascannons with to save points?

IMHO LCs are the best option. Keep them if you can afford to.

I love HBs. Particularly on basic PA marines. They just look cool. However, they do a very niche job; killing lightly armored troops in the open. The problem is most light troops have the common sense to hide in cover. Now between bolter drill and tank hunter, CF devs might be OK for threatening light vehicles. And if you just need a low point squad to fill a slot in a formation, they could work. But I’d not expect great things from them

MLs are expensive jack of all trades weapons. Tank hunter makes them slightly better at popping tanks, which is really what you want to be doing with them. Frag missiles are overall disappointing. And if all you shoot is kracks (as I do) then why not scrape up the points to upgrade to LCs, for the extra S/AP. If points are very tight, sure, skimp here. At least you get some theoretical flexibility with your savings.

That is kinda what I was thinking, just wanted to make sure. HB Devastators do have the increased rate of fire on top of Bolter drill, they just don't really fit in my speeder heavy army. Even the LC Devastators don't fit very well with the army as a whole, which is why I was shopping for alternatives. I may end up replacing the Devs with a Gravy Bike Squad anyway to keep with the fast pace of the army. And that is a shame since it would mean I am foregoing the Tank Hunters ability altogether. I have about 200 puts to work with, so using 150 up on the Devs leaves me with 50 pts. I could get a few ablative wounds for the Devs, I suppose.

For a fast moving themed army, you might want to look at the flyers. For 200 points and a HS slot your could fly a raven in empty as a gunboat. While they might not get a whole lot of use out of it, buying the devs a razorback would allow them to keep up with the speeders from a fluff POV. Or just take some tanks.

And while they don’t get anything from your CT, a pair of TML/HB speeders will do the same basic job as a ML dev squad. Not quite as good as popping tanks due to the lack of tank hunter, but have the speed to get in flank shots for lower AVs.

But that’s moving from "what to equip devs with” to “How to add support firepower to a themed list”

I have two Skyhammer Stormtalons in the Raptor Wing formation so I am probably set on flyers. I had LS Typhoons, but converted them to Assault Cannon LS due to the rules of the formation needing them to be close, plus I love assault cannons. They also run a little cheaper.

I may just keep the Lascannons and get them an Aegis Defense Line for some protection. Though I did just get the SM Starter so I might look into building a Venerable Dreadnought with a TL Lascannon. The whole army isn't fast paced, I still have a Land Raider Crusader, some Terminators, and Pedro Kantor running around.

It’s been a while since I fielded my ADL. Mostly due the the change to skyfire/interceptor on the quadgun. But if you are going for one of the other accessories (like a com relay or ammo dump) it might still be worth fielding. Particularly if you’ve got a hammer and anvil style list. Not the deployment option, but a gunline/fire support part of your list that sits tight and puts out the dakka, and a mobile element that goes out to hammer things.

One thing I am thinking about is getting a third drop pod with something to stick into it (Dreadnought maybe). That way I can get both Sternguard squads out on Turn 1. The Raptor Wing will come in Turn 2 to provide AA and Fire Support. By then the LRC will be close enough to launch Pedro and the Terminators. Scouts will perform drivebys with their Bolters.

To bring things full circle back to the original topic of this thread:

If you want to drop pod the devs, that can work as well. While not the skyhammer annihilation force, just a normal squad, preferably with grav cannons, can put some harm down. It’s also a spot where HBs are not a terrible option. Mostly due to the low cost and bolter drill (better with SoT). 12 shots re-rolling ones should get you 2-3 hits against AV10 rear armor, re-rolling pens. Not optimal, but might work. Pus you can always drop the pod empty if there are no good targets.

In general you want odd number of pods. 3 makes for a nice hybrid drop list.

 Nevelon wrote:
To bring things full circle back to the original topic of this thread:

If you want to drop pod the devs, that can work as well. While not the skyhammer annihilation force, just a normal squad, preferably with grav cannons, can put some harm down. It’s also a spot where HBs are not a terrible option. Mostly due to the low cost and bolter drill (better with SoT). 12 shots re-rolling ones should get you 2-3 hits against AV10 rear armor, re-rolling pens. Not optimal, but might work. Pus you can always drop the pod empty if there are no good targets.

In general you want odd number of pods. 3 makes for a nice hybrid drop list.

Fair enough. An empty pod is certainly an option, though 35 pts on a storm bolter is kinda foolish, IMO. Still could be fun to mow down stuff with HB.

Look at getting some plasma cannons if you can. Tank Hunters combines well with S7 weapons.

I usually take my Crimson Fists Devastators with four Missile Launchers as part of a Demi-Company in a Gladius Strike Force. They do good work, especially if you slap the psychic power on them that gives them rending - frag missiles can be very dangerous in that case. Flak missiles are worth considering, as Tank Hunters makes them dangerous enough that enemy fliers have to jink or risk being shot down in one turn.

The other squad I field either has four lascannon or two lascannon and two plasma cannon, if I field like using combat squads or if the low AP is needed. Plasma cannon are best if you have access to doctrines, as the rerolls make them accurate enough to be a threat and it reduces the chance of over heating. (Doctrines also greatly improve the viability of dreadnough-mounted plasma cannon.)

I don't see much use in the other options. Heavy Bolters could be useful, but my army usually has enough anti-material and anti-troop shots that the Heavy Bolters would be unneeded. Grav Cannon are better on Tactical Squads who want to fight on the move and get close enough to use them; ditto with multi-meltas, though I've never been a fan of them with infantry.

I still get good results with MLs though they arn't what they once were. I really wish GW would roll in flak missles for free and really make them a jack of all trade weapon. That would be worth there cost.

Flakk for free would definitely be cool. I think I will keep the Lascannons if I run a CAD and run ML if I run a Gladius.

I think Flakk for 5 points would be acceptable, but that's not the topic at hand.

Devastators want to camp, and they want to do it far away from the enemy (unless they're Grav Hammer dudes). Lascannons will specialize them specifically for the role, though be fairly expensive. Launchers will save you 20 points, but one has to ask if losing AP2 is worth it.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
I think Flakk for 5 points would be acceptable, but that's not the topic at hand.

Devastators want to camp, and they want to do it far away from the enemy (unless they're Grav Hammer dudes). Lascannons will specialize them specifically for the role, though be fairly expensive. Launchers will save you 20 points, but one has to ask if losing AP2 is worth it.

that is a good point. They might be my only source of AP2 besides a few power fists. I do have 10 Combi-Melta as well. Assault Cannons can become AP2, but I don't want to count on that.

 casvalremdeikun wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
I think Flakk for 5 points would be acceptable, but that's not the topic at hand.

Devastators want to camp, and they want to do it far away from the enemy (unless they're Grav Hammer dudes). Lascannons will specialize them specifically for the role, though be fairly expensive. Launchers will save you 20 points, but one has to ask if losing AP2 is worth it.

that is a good point. They might be my only source of AP2 besides a few power fists. I do have 10 Combi-Melta as well. Assault Cannons can become AP2, but I don't want to count on that.

Then there's the matter of Launchers being able to throw out Small Blasts, which aren't exactly reliable.

Lascannons, on an objective, in the back. Make use of that delicious tank hunters, since you gave up Devastwtor and tactical doctrine rerolls to get it! (Outside of a gladius, of course)

I would never recommend a heavy bolter unless they are free.

I'd go so far as to say the only acceptable places for a heavy bolter is on a Landspeeder typhoon, a Landspeeder storm, on a free razorback, or the front of a sicaran.

Ultras only wish they could reroll like a Fist can :p

I don't even run heavy Bolters on my Land Speeder Storms, they were all built with Heavy Flamers before the increase in BS. I still have an HB Dev squad for lulz. Maybe if Sentinels of Terra gets updated like FSE did, I might look into running them (TL HB for everyone!).

It does seem like the best strategy is sticking Lascannons in the back field. My biggest problem is that I almost never get anything done with them. People always deep strike stuff right behind them and blow them up, or the enemy is too busy jinking for me to get a hit off.

Put, you Imperial Fists get to wait in the back of the line for supplements, behind the Ultramarines, Salamanders and Black Templars.

And you fists might reroll half of your Boltguns misses, I'll just sit here and reroll these Gravcannons on this important turn.

And hey, if they are throwing deep strikers at 150 points of guys, not to shabby. Better than something expensive!

 Crazyterran wrote:
Put, you Imperial Fists get to wait in the back of the line for supplements, behind the Ultramarines, Salamanders and Black Templars.

And you fists might reroll half of your Boltguns misses, I'll just sit here and reroll these Gravcannons on this important turn.

And hey, if they are throwing deep strikers at 150 points of guys, not to shabby. Better than something expensive!

Ultras are practically every supplement by virtue of being the most vanilla of the vanilla marines(they should make every detachment and formation available to an Ultra army though)! SoT and CR already exist, so it is just a matter of doing an update like FSE got in Mont'ka. But agreed, Black Templars need a supplement ahead of all other C:SM chapters. They are too different from everyone else in how they deploy.

I actually tied up an entire unit of DW Knights in CC with a Dreadnought once because they couldn't pierce his armor(he never rolled a six), but I couldn't pierce theirs(criminally good rolls for their Invul). This was after they had wiped out the Devs though. I don't think that will be able to happen anymore with the smite ability. But, I punched out Belial, and that was awesome.