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Hey Dakka,

Just wanted to wrack your brains on this one and ask how you would limit damage when faced against a nasty alpha strike list?
And by nasty alpha strike I mean; imagine a double Skyhammer, drop pod grav cents or just an overwhelming amount of firepower that can reach you wherever you deploy (such as highly mobile jetbikes or stuff that ignores LOS), how would you deal with that?

Currently the theoretical solutions I'm seeing have some major down sides associated with them:

- Relying on heavy reserves - Might work, but inherently risky since you are forcing your opponent to focus fire on whatever you have left on the table, obviously with the potential of a tabling turn 1. If using multiple pods, your opponent can simply send the heavier stuff when your own units come out of reserve turn 2. It is also worth noting that with Tau making a triumphant return to the table, bumping into heavy interceptor is a real possibility. The final issue is that this really requires you to invest in some reserve manipulation of your own.

- Splitting your forces - While it sounds counter intuitive to split your forces as this allows your opponent to pick off some of your army piecemeal, it also encourages them to overkill a single section of your army or perhaps even under commit and spread themselves too thinly. This seems to be more effective with deepstrikers and pods since many of them cannot maintain the initial mobility they had when first deploying. That said, the damage inflicted on your guys still might be enough to cripple you and does nothing against some of the more mobile/ranged alpha strikes out there.

- Castle up- Hugging terrain, taking the alpha strike on the chin whilst maximising the amount of cover and defensive buffs you can before swinging back at your assailants might work. I mean if you have any sort of psykic support like shrouding in ruins for a 2+ bubble or invisibility would be great but since everyone and their uncle is running an assassin (at least in my area) it’s fairly risky and obviously dependent on terrain.

- Shields up – Three void shields, deploying in a way that bars entry to deepstrikers and mitigates the damage. Windrider guardians/ anything that can spam S6 or better will probably just laugh at it though.

- “It’s a bubble trap?”- I’ve seen it multiple times before; the premises goes along the lines of having something big and scary but wanting it to survive so you bubble wrap it with infantry. With this you create holes in the bubble wrap just large enough for a pod to fit but not its occupants, you then wait for a pod to scatter into your little flytrap…since they are forced to deploy out of the pod but cannot be placed they are instantly removed from play. Very niche, requires a ton of infantry, a fairly naive opponent, more of a troll tactic than competitive and to be honest I don’t know if it still works anymore but if you’ve managed it before fair play to you.

That’s all the options I can think of for facing an alpha strike and I’m not happy with any of them so far, so what’s your counter of choice against these sorts of lists.

Note: Please see the posts next to my name, as you see I’m a very new user to Dakka (great to be here by the way!) so I apologise if this issue has been raised before, but with Tau now very much out there now and are bringing a meaty load of interceptor with them, I figure it may be worth bringing it up again… that and also when coming up tactics and I am conceptually and hopelessly lost.

Thanks for reading,

Torus

With my Renegades and Heretics, I havent had issue flooding my deployment zone. This may work for AM as well, however they wont be able to pull it off as easily as R&H. Part of this tactic is also leaving holes in my deployment zone that look appealing, but actually don't leave enough room for a proper deep strike, causing misshaps. You can leave these openings near table edges as well.

If they can't land in your deployment zone, they have to land in front. That is where a single lined unit (plague zombies or troops) walls my forces, so skyhammer has to charge just them. They will kill that unit, and I can drop pieplates and 40k las gun shots into them.

I think null deployment, not deploying anything to start, is the best option. You will need to have an army that could do it as not all can.

A few pods or a few ways to get reserves on the table on turn 1 so you can deploy nothing. This works best if you go second and eliminate the chance of getting tabled.

Alternatively you can deploy just 1-2 units which are hardy and almost invulnerable to the enemy alpha strike. For example if you play a list and you know the alpha strike will be all grav weapons, then deploy a unit with no armor saves like an assassin o a unit of Spawn who can weather the initial salvo. LOS blocking terrain will be required so the rest of the army doesn't shoot you also.

MSU as much as possible to increase the number of targets and reduce the amount of models they can remove per turn?

Hide behind Rhinos. And in them.

I've got to say I do like to use MSU as much as possible, my concern there is an ever increasing amount of splitfire or amount of firepower from min units of scatbikes or massed swooping hawks, spiders and the like... but hey it may just be me overthinking this.
The same can unfortunately be said about hiding behind and in transports but again this could just be me overthinking

 Torus wrote:
I've got to say I do like to use MSU as much as possible, my concern there is an ever increasing amount of splitfire or amount of firepower from min units of scatbikes or massed swooping hawk, spiders and the like... but hey it may just be me overthinking this.
The same can unfortunately be said about hiding behind and in transports but again this could just be me overthinking

Not really. Scatbikes can't explode Rhinos. Nor can most common anti-tank weapons. So they can split fire all they like, but eventually all the will be able to see is a bunch of dead Rhinos.

Sorry Martel, you must forgive me but what's your next play after that?

So you have invested in rhinos and tacticals to stop yourself getting tabled by utilizing LOS blocking terrain (read: smoking rhinos). You're now stuck in your own deployment zone with no transportation, no mobility and staring down the barrel of some very peeved xenos.

Soo in that case, I’m assuming you’ve got your own pods/reserves coming down turn 1 as well?

 Torus wrote:
Sorry Martel, you must forgive me but what's your next play after that?

So you have invested in rhinos and tacticals to stop yourself getting tabled by utilizing LOS blocking terrain (read: smoking rhinos). You're now stuck in your own deployment zone with no transportation, no mobility and staring down the barrel of some very peeved xenos.

Soo in that case, I’m assuming you’ve got your own pods/reserves coming down turn 1 as well?

All of the bikes, attack bikes, DC, and such shoot and assault the alpha strikers and kill them. BA are never stuck in their deployment zone. I usually reserve very little. This works better against drop lists than ranged lists. Ranged lists are really "alpha strike" lists, they are ranged lists. I'm talking about countering lists that deep strike into YOUR face.

Ah, that’s my fault I wager. I have a fairly liberal interpretation of ‘alpha strikes’. In my head it’s any list that is built to dish out as much punishment as possible in a single turn with the intent of crippling the opponent in a single turn before it gets to do anything. As such they typically include deepstrikers but with some of the hyper competitive shooting we’ve been introduced to recently I’d say it can ranged as well.

But let’s say in this instance we are using say… Skyhammers or a couple of aspect hosts of... swooping hawks/ spiders. How are you ensuring enough of your stuff is coming on turn 2 and how beefy is your rhino wall to potentially take to turns of focused shooting?

Go for night fighting to improve your durability

Interceptor

Dark angel overwatching full ballistic skill

Tau overwatching

Necron decurion (good luck wiping it in 1 turn)

Guard bubblewrapping

Space marines - null deploy and use drop pods

Orks green tide (really you dont want to assault this even with 2 skyhammers)

Deploy something huge that can't be taken turn 1 (stompa, garg of some kind, superheavy)

Put into reserves your really important/fragile stuff

That highly depends on the kind of Alpha Strike.

most of the time, I would spread out and screen and then count on retaliation. Sure I will concede first blood, but this is inevitable against a good alpha strike.

But of course it depends on my list as well.

I am the Alpha Strike. Even if I am forced to deepstrike first and he gets the 2nd turn on me, most of my guys will be on objectives scoring me points already and killing whatever he has in his deployment zone.

After he lands I can react with my shunt units.

Unless they're Grav Cannon Centurions. Then I lose, yea that's fun.

 Torus wrote:
Ah, that’s my fault I wager. I have a fairly liberal interpretation of ‘alpha strikes’. In my head it’s any list that is built to dish out as much punishment as possible in a single turn with the intent of crippling the opponent in a single turn before it gets to do anything. As such they typically include deepstrikers but with some of the hyper competitive shooting we’ve been introduced to recently I’d say it can ranged as well.

But let’s say in this instance we are using say… Skyhammers or a couple of aspect hosts of... swooping hawks/ spiders. How are you ensuring enough of your stuff is coming on turn 2 and how beefy is your rhino wall to potentially take to turns of focused shooting?

The thing with the shooting alpha strike is...technically they get to do it every turn until you make it stop.

Alpha deepstriking is more of a 1st turn issue.

 Torus wrote:
Ah, that’s my fault I wager. I have a fairly liberal interpretation of ‘alpha strikes’. In my head it’s any list that is built to dish out as much punishment as possible in a single turn with the intent of crippling the opponent in a single turn before it gets to do anything. As such they typically include deepstrikers but with some of the hyper competitive shooting we’ve been introduced to recently I’d say it can ranged as well.

But let’s say in this instance we are using say… Skyhammers or a couple of aspect hosts of... swooping hawks/ spiders. How are you ensuring enough of your stuff is coming on turn 2 and how beefy is your rhino wall to potentially take to turns of focused shooting?

Nothing is coming in turn 2. It's all on the table. I usually have 3-4 Rhinos and deploy in a corner to limit their surface area. Maybe this isn't the best for non-BA, come to think of it. My entire non-Rhino list is bikers or jumpers.

Put everything on the board and pray you roll a 6 to seize.

Build a Castle that would make Robert de Belleme weep in its beauty. IF your opponent can't get behind your lines, they have to go in front of them.

Another option for orks: Bully Boyz in trukks. The trukks will die, leaving the meganobz to beta strike. It's almost a perfect storm for the orkies.

Take a skyshield landing pad or void shield - these seriously save some armies from alpha strikes