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Ok my meta is saturated with knight hate. Mass melta, fusion, scatbikes, grav, gauss, dread knights and penitent and wraith knights with s10 ap2 hits.

My strat is to flood the board and tie stuff down with spawns after bubble wrapping the knight from turn 1 deepstrike melta pods n such. looking at you sky hammer...

Purge detachment

The advantages: 
-Spawn can apparently be taken as elites with no requirement of covenants or demagouge types. This is huge. 
-The purge detachment allows 6 elites but no FA. The compulsory slots are 1HQ and 2 elites (think spawn). 
-Plague zombies no longer have a 0-1 restriction. 
-Flamers and frag missiles have shred. 
-Barrage templates create dangerous terrain for a turn where they land. 
-Ordnance Tyrant allows you to take earthshaker/medusa batteries, bombards, basilisks, and others as elites as well as HS. It also allows you to take quad cannons and heavy mortars as non compulsory troops. He also allows all barrage units within 12" to be able to hit friendly units. 

I dont have the renegades models and do not plan on getting them and forego all the benefits of shredding flamers&misiles, dangerous terrain barrage, ordanace tyrant. That is the cheese and whole point of the purge but i am using it just for the 6 squads of spawns.

So list one
The purge Primary CSM not RH

hq, lord, bike, mon, pf, lc, sigil@165

elite:
3 spawns @ 55
3 spawns @ 55
3 spawns @ 55
3 spawns @ 55
3 spawns @ 55
3 spawns @ 55

troops:
how to get plague zombies? Still need necrosius, typhus, command squad with covenant of nurgle?
if not then 2x10 cultists@100
can take up to 8 troop slots

no fast:
can not take fa

heavy:
2 obliterators, mon @ 152
2 obliterators, mon @ 152
2 obliterators, mon @ 152

How to get LoW Chaos Knight? Does The Purge detachment allow 1 LoW slot?
Chaos Knight, Errant, dirge caster, DK of Nurgle @ 450

total 1501pts.

How suboptimal is this jenk list?

EDIT: just realized this doesnt work because the elite spawns i want belong to RH so I cant run my csm in it...

This list is illegal, you can't mix and match CSM and renegades in the same detachment. The renegade spawn are from the Renegades list, which is fine but you can't take them in the same detachment with the lord.

The best way to make the list would be to do a primary purge with a arch demagogue with covenant of nurgle to get plague zombies. You can spam the renegade spawns here.

Then do a secondary detachment for your lord. If you want all those obits then do it as a CAD with 2x cultists as troops.


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Edit: saw your edit. Also yes the purge allows for 1 fortification and 1 LOW

This list was so perfect till i realized the whole elite spawns belong to RH.

Here is a second list

Primary CSM
Lord MoN, Bike Sigil, pf,lc @165

2x10 cultists@100

LoW
Chaos Knight Errant, Dirge caster, DK of Nurgle @ 450

Detachment :The Purge

Renegade command squad, arch demigogue, covenant of nurgle @55

troops:
2x10 zombies @ 60

elites:
4x3 spawn @ 55x4=220

LoW:
Chaos Knight Errant, DK of Nurgle, dc, @ 450
total 1500.

I feel that its too point many points in 2 Chaos Knights who are subpar.

The purge detachment is meant to benefit RH barrage weapons and frag missiles...

would I be much better off using no csm?

I have scratch built spawns and 20 cultists. I have 20 Marines who look like scouts since they lack back packs and shoulder pauldrons.

I have so many terminators I cant even use and havocs.

You need to make the Arch Demagogue the Warlord in order to unlock the zombies with the Covenant of Nurgle, otherwise it's just a 6+ FNP for him which is pretty useless. So if you just swap it to the primary it's fine. The only problem is that you may give up an easier Slay the Warlord. I don't think the zombies really add much, and you can probably live without them. If you want more cheap bodies just take Mutant Rabble who can at least run.

I think keeping the CSM is fine. It's probably not worth running 2 knights at 1500, but then again someone may be completely unable to do anything about them.

Instead of the Chaos Lord why not run Necrosius as the warlord, he will unlock Plague Zombies in the CSM CAD and buff them across both armies. Pretty cool unique Wichfire too.

As for Knight hate:

- Mass Melta + Fusion: Bubble wrap is a good call w/40x Fearless Zombies
- scatbikes + gauss (maybe the battle cannon Knight? Better to force jink or eat up Necron warrior blobs)
- skyhammer grav (maybe think about a VSG?)
- Wraithknights + various CC units: What about going Daemon of Slaneesh? You go up to I5) Corrected: You get Daemon of Slaneesh and a WK will naturally test LD on -3 to strike at Init 1. Add a Telepathy Psyker for Terrify and that can become -4.

I think it might be better to have 1x Knight and an enabler like Be'lakor for Invis. But you can probably playtest that to find out.

my flgs banned invisibility and grimoire from Me. Only me... Every tiggy and other psycher gets to mess around with invis and the kdk players get grimoire...

are you sure Daemon Knight of Slaanesh gives i5?

i agree...2 knights at 450 each is too much of a point sink.

I need to find a way to convert terminators/obliterators into rapier batteries.

Does anyone own hotweels or tiny toy tanks? I plan to break the threads off n put them over the terminators legs...

Banning rules for use to a specific player seems like bad news to me.

Daemon of slaanesh gives +3" to run moves, fleet and rending. Mark of slaanesh gives +1 initiative. Not sure what the knight benefits from.

i do not believe Daemon Knight of Slaanesh confer +3" run moves or +1i

anyways

my list to shoe horn an IK into 1500...

CAD 1 CSM

Lord, MoN, Bike, sigil, pf, llc@165 (starts near spawns of RH and joins them when game begins so possible to be single out if going second)

Troops
2x5 Plague Marines, 2 meltaguns, champ meltabomb, rhino

fa
heldrake

hvy
obliterator

LoW
Chaos Knight Errant, Dirge caster, DK of Nurgle @ 450

CAD2 RH
hq
Ren Comand Squad

trp
2x10 Mutant Rabbles

elt
3x3 spawns

No I5, too bad. I still think it's worth pursuing the LD debuff angle against big targets.

Here is more information from FW on the Daemon ruling:

http://natfka.blogspot.co.uk/2015/07/chaos-knight-question-answered.html?m=1

Why wouldn't you just start the game joined with the spawn? You are Battle Brothers so you don't have to wait and can join st deployment.

for real you can join csm lord with rh spawns? I did not take rh as ally slot...

Allied Detachment only affects how your detachment is set up. The only rules that dictate who can join units is the big alliance matrix in the BRB. CSM and Renegades are Battle Brothers no matter what detachment you use.

I am spending 185pts on 5 plague marines with 2 meltaguns and melta bomb, in a rhino. Is that a huge waste of points?

I want some sort of troops like scat bikes...there is nonsuch thing in CSM or RH...

 Filch wrote:
I am spending 185pts on 5 plague marines with 2 meltaguns and melta bomb, in a rhino. Is that a huge waste of points?

I want some sort of troops like scat bikes...there is nonsuch thing in CSM or RH...

No, having 2 units of ObSec Plague Marines is a good idea, especially with Meltas. They're my go to choice for most lists. I like to have more than 2 squads though, they work well when you can just flood the midfield and dig in to cover. If they weren't ObSec then it wouldn't really be worth it, but since they are it makes all the difference, especially against the bs Gladius stuff.

I don't think ti's 185 for your setup. It should only be 180 unless you gave the Rhinos Dozer Blades. I'm not sure the Melta Bombs are necessary, maybe use the points for Dirge Casters on the Rhinos to help protect your Lord/Spawn unit a bit from overwatch.

I did some more research and found out that if i ditch the Purge and went regular cad for RH as my main i can have the Arch demigogue as the warlord, Mutant Overlord, Covenant of Tzeentch to unlock 4 spawns as my non compulsory troops. So i have still have to take 2 squads of rabbles. I can still take 3 more squads of spawns as elite tho right?

CAD1 RH for the spawns

Renegade Command Squad
Arch Demigogue, Mutant overlord, Covenant of Tzeentch @95pts (need suggestions to make him not easy to kill)

elites:
3x3 spawns @165

troops:
2x10 rabbles @60

noncompulsory troops
4x3 spawns @ 220

CAD2 CSM true back bone of the army

Lord, bike, MoN, pf,lc, sigil@165

troops:
2x10 cultists@100

fast:
Heldrake @170

heavy:
3x2 obliterators @456

or should i take havocs with ac?
or should i take a chaos knight of nurgle?

subtotal 1431

The book is pretty unclear if you can take them as an Elites choice and Troops choice the way you are using them, so I have no idea if it's legal. I'm of the opinion if it's questionable then don't do it.

You could drop the 9 elites spawn and get 5 nurgle spawn in the csm detachment.

I'd also dump the oblits for a Knight, but a Khorne knight not Nurgle since it's cheaper and can stomp gak better.


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The warlord is going to be easy to get unfortunately. Maybe stick him in a unit of cultists and keep them in reserve?


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Edit: I just looked at the book, and it doesn't seem like you need BOTH Covenant of Tzeentch and Mutant Overlord. The Covenant of Tzeentch lets you take 0-3 units as non-compulsory troops, and the Mutant Overlord just lets' you take any number as non-compulsory troops. So I think you can dump the Covenant of Tzeentch if you want.

The demigogue is the warlord. He has a comand squad. I have extra points to spend on him.

The lord on the bike will hop from spawn squads to spawn squad as they kill the spawns. He will have a fresh trio of spawns escorts to join each turn.

The nurgle biker lord has been the only reliable thing i have used since 6th ed. He has been tru so much and died so much but alteast he punches something real hard before getting pwned.

i want the 4x3 spawn squads as obj sec troops. These are to closest things to scat bikes in the RH dex. CSM spawns are too expensive compared to RH spawns even with t6. The remaining 3x3 spawns are there to suicide rush and bubble wrap other things.

Mutant over lord only adds 1 elite spawn as troops in addition to the covenant of tzeentch's 3.

In one of your lists you took a Knight as LoW choice for Renegades, this isn't allowed as far as I am aware right now sadly :(

Thank you for letting me know that but we have moved beyond the 2 knight list.

You're welcome

Some told me That I could only run 1 spawn as elite if i use the Main RH book which has Mutant Overlord and Covenant of Tzeentch. The other book with the spawns as elites eliminates Mutant overlord and covenant of tzeentch and slaanesh. Is this true?

 Filch wrote:
Some told me That I could only run 1 spawn as elite if i use the Main RH book which has Mutant Overlord and Covenant of Tzeentch. The other book with the spawns as elites eliminates Mutant overlord and covenant of tzeentch and slaanesh. Is this true?

The Siege of Vraks book does eliminate all that stuff. The only problem is that whoever copy/pasted the Renegade Spawn into the book left the text "Can only be unlocked through the Master of Renegades rule". This was obviously a Fuckup because there is literally no way to unlock them in the book otherwise. So according to the Forgeworld emails that are on some forums Forgeworld says to just use them as normal Elites. We need an FAQ badly, and the book is like 6 months old. GG Forgeworld.

So how many spawns can I have for elites and how many for obj sec troops?

 Filch wrote:
So how many spawns can I have for elites and how many for obj sec troops?

If you are a running Vraks Renegades by RAW you can't take any RH Spawn because you can't unlock them through the Master of Renegades in the Vraks book (since you can't go Tzeentch). If you believe that its a typo (as per some of the FW emails going around the internet say it is) then you can take them as a regular elite choice but still have no way to take them as troops for ObSec. However IMO its more likely that the Spawn entry isn't even suppose to be in the Vraks book and instead its suppose to be the Marauders entry (as they can be taken per the Master of Renegades rule, but their entry is missing) and was just a mix up in editiing.

By IA13 Renegades you can take Covenant of Tzeentch to unlock 3 troop RH Spawn and Mutant Overlord to unlock 1 RH Spawn as non-compulsory troop choices for up to 4 RH Spawn units with ObSec

Thank you for clarification.

If I use the main RH book does that mean I am limited to only 1 squad if spawns as elite?

I want to run 4 spawn squads as obj sec troops and have a 5th, 6th, 7th squad of spawns as elite choice.

IA13 can only take spawns are troop

Vraks can only take spawn as ellites

Well then... I have a dilema.

Either I choose Vrak and the purge detachment to ger 6 elite spawns with no taxes or I chose IA13 CAD to get 4 spawns as troops and 60pts of 2 rabble squad taxes with the 25pt Demigogue req updrades.

Which do you think is better?

Choice 1 The Purge detachment

HQ: Renegade command squad minimum 45pts

elite: 2-6:
6 x3 spawns @ 330

troops: 0-8:

fa: 0-0:

heavy: 0-4

Or Choice 2, Regular CAD

Renegade Command squad, Mutant Overlord, Covenant of Tzeentch minimum 70pts

troops
4x3 spawns @ 220
2x2 mutant rabbles@ 60

The troops available to CSM are over costed junk. I wish spawns could hold guns in the CSM version. Four squads of spawn trios at 220pts is a steal. Fearless, High toughness, and 12" move is great for obj games.

Depends on what you want for the rest of your gak. I'd still rather have CSM Nurgle spawn as my lord's initial escort for the majority T6. Having some renegade spawn is a nice backup too, but they don't reliably do much damage without a character. Having 6 groups is a bit ridiculous I think, 3 or 4 could be ok.

If they are Obsec that is really pretty cool and is probably worth it. I'd build the CSM detachment first, and then see how many points you have left for the Renegades. If you can afford the troops and master of Renegades tax then go IA13 Renegades CAD.

What compliments Spawns? A nurgle biker lord is 165pts too much. Its a good idea to mess with psychers to buff them. Then again the flgs banned me from using invisibility after i proxied my DP as Belakor and invisible a Chaos Knight. Even banned me from grimoire to kick me in the nuts. Soon they will ban my scratch built spawns after I make some one rage quite or complain about my spawns.

my flgs should just ban me out right at this point.

Maybe you should talk to your club about your lists and not dakka?