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So I made a thread a while back discussing a campaign at my local store for next month, and I managed to get only a couple of practice games to test what worked or not in my list! I found that the weapon choices I had were not the best frankly, and that I still need to learn on how to manage tactis and such! However, I'm having difficulties with a choice, you'll see the list I have, but I am tempted to throw away some items and have a Priest for the Bullgryns, but I'm thinking that having 3x Hvy Stubbers + 2x Dozer Blades is more useful than a single priest, what would you say?

HQ :

CCS
-Carapace
-Bolt Pistol
-Hvy Flamer
-Autocannon
-Master of Ordnance
-Chimera (Hvy Bolter + Hvy Stubber + Camo)
197

Troops :

Veterans
-Bolt Pistol
-Autocannon
-2x Plasma
-Grenadiers
-Chimera (Hvy Bolter + Hvy Stubber + Dozer Blade + Camo)
206

Veterans
-Bolt Pistol
-2x Meltas
-Hvy Flamer
-Grenadiers
-Chimera (Hvy Bolter + Hvy Stubber + Dozer Blade + Camo)
196

Heavy Support :

LRBT
150

Total : 749 Points

Hello,
Core of your army looks okay to me, with mech vets and a mech HQ. you're only playing 750pts so the 3 chimeras should make their presence known on the tabletop.
While their loadout isn't optimum, it could be *a lot* worse.

Bullgryns are a HEAVY Investment, around a quarter of your limited available points. they're slow, have no ranged capabilities, and die to any measure of sustained firepower. -never been a fan of them myself.
However, you appear to be new to playing guard?
so I'll cut you some slack, the models look nice.
(deceptive b*****ds)- They simply don't perform on the battlefield. -A priest will increase their worth, but that's more investment into a 'glass-deathstar'.

never saw the appeal of heavy stubbers either, though I'd advise you keep the dozer blades if you're playing in and area with lots of terrain.

Hope this helps?
Chaplain Xenophobe

This helps a lot thank you!

And yes I succumbed to the Bullgryn models myself and I'm planning one day to Convert an Ork Warboss out of one myself! The reason for the stubbers and every chimera having heavy bolters and such is because at the store, where the campaign will be, it's not terribly large, so to have off the bat, 3 36inch guns per chimera blasting away is great! Also at the store there isn't a lot of folks bringing marines and heavy vehicles so I'm expecting sheer weight of about 3 stationary chimeras dishing out 27 shots to give some grief! also yep there's a lot of terrain indeed!

I am expecting when the campaign runs further on and more points are available, with it being a long-term campaign, I'll be running more efficient units like chimera vets, tanks, etc.

Also I'll be getting upgraded for the CCS and commander, like to increase a certain stat (s, t, wounds, etc) what ones would you recommend?

Ok,
-well justified chimera loadout, keep the "dakka-buses" then...

-given the meta the autocannons make more sense too, I was going to question the availability of other heavy weapons?

-I'd still try and swap out the bullgryns if *at all* possible? I can regrettably see them dragging you down in their inefficiency...

-As to stat boosts, there's little worth doing to your CCS, except for maybe a BS boost on the MoO? -If in doubt, increase toughness, as at the minute your HQ is vulnerable to instant death from strength 6!!!

I have almost a month anyhow to run my armies and test them out, so I'll try and fit some more in with my Bullgryns and if they really aren't doing enough...I have a PCS, and a couple Inf squads I can toss in as replacements, maybe get some of those defence lines also with the Quad guns!

Also I need to double check with the manager if it's just the Commander that gets the buffs, or the whole squad!

SO today I had four games, three 750 games and a 500 game. What did I learn? I love my Dakka Chimeras, absolutely, unloading 18 S5 AP4 per turn with 9 S4 AP6 shots is fantastic! My dudes have done alright themselves, though the Meltas have just had poor rolls all day sadly! But...Bullgryns are seriously dragging me down, being too slow and being weighed down with substantial fire, despite all the cover around, and before ya say 'TOLD YA SO', I've made some choices! I WILL have the Bullgryns, just not now, and instead go for them with the next 250 points and...You'll see soon!

What to remove :

Bullgryns = -190 Points

CCS Chimera's Dozer Blade = -5 Points

554 Points Total

What to add :

Leman Russ Battle Tank = 150 Points

3x Camo Nettings for Chimeras = 45 Points

749 Points Total

Taurox is not fast - Taurox Prime is fast

Well damn you're right then! Simple mistake then! That's a shame, but I think starting be on my side the furthest forward at 12 inch then move another 16 inches will perhaps be enough to get my bullgryns to safety....Either that or leave it and see how our comparing will go then...

But what do you all think about having the Tank and the camo netting? We have a lot of cover pieces on the board so thought it'd be useful! My Chimeras usually give me full range of the enemy so I hang back initially and lay waste into them! (Though it took my whole unit to kill his flying tyrant in one round of shooting...) OH also my Master of Ordnance is definitely my MVP, he's been surprisingly consistent!

Yup, TOLD YA SO! ;D

-Unfortunate really, but a sad truth. Bullgryns are simply not cut out for competitive gameplay.
-Taurox? Wow you're a brave man bro.
Paper armour.
Front armour 11, is vulnerable to S5, and side and rear 10 makes you vulnerable to Bolter fire, S4. ouch.

Enough of the negatives though!
Good to see your guard are performing, those Meltagunners will prove their worth when it counts the most!
The Emperor Protects!
-The Inclusion of a Leman Russ Battle Tank is a valuable addition, giving you some large blasts at S8 AP3.
It's a nice ranged punch to pack, and something to scare off those numerous 3+ Astartes variants.

If terrain is as abundant as you say, camo netting will increase the durability of those Chimeras nicely, and an improved cover save (and 6+ in the open) synergises better with a stationary gunline than the ability to transverse terrain.

-A Master of Ordnance that hits stuff??? -Heresy!!!

Hey, glad I saw this post. Im not a expert by ANY means, but I play a lot of 500pt to 750pt skirmished and campaigns. (I love a good kill team now and then too) When you have a small point match and are guard, that's when real tactics truly shine, your orders (if you choose to go that route) become extremely powerful and game changers. I don't like to copy and paste my list to other people and say it is the only way to play, because its not, it gets beaten sometimes, but iits fun to play. As far as your list my advice would be replace the autocannon in your hq with a mortar, because the mortar and the MoO are both barrage and in the same unit so they fire together in the barrage special rule. As far as the bullgrins with a priest. If you want a unit that can take and hold an obj, try a vet squad with harker, a hvy flamer, a melta and a commissar, and as fwd sentries. put them in cover and after they shoot tell them to go to ground, +1 for the camo cloaks, and +1 for going to ground, with being in cover your looking at a 2+ cover save depending on type of terrain. Then when its your turn have your CC order get back in the fight, and they roll on the commissar's ldr 9, boom they are back in the fight. Plus the fwd sentries gives them snare mines, so any charge against them is automatically disorganized. Just my $0.02, have fun playing guard, its a blast.

I'll still be thinking on what to add but I've got plenty of time for that so anyhow! But I did recently play a game today that's been giving me ideas so far...I used the LRBT with the standard list against a necron force, but it was my first maelstrom and it was from either corner.

It didn't go well.

Necrons are the bane of the list, glancing my vehicles and the necron Lord in the chariot just slammed through my list. But I think it was just me being new to maelstrom and also necrons are good against me! (3 squads of10 warriors, 3 of those jet dudes and Lord on chariot). But the issue I'm seeing (through my past three games) is that I'm killing dudes fine, but long term their assault dudes like characters just slice through me with ease! But I guess that's the issue with guard! Hopefully it'll change with further points but I'm keeping the list as is I think, but thank ya!

SO after some games and some talks, I think I figured out a good list here! We have done a HQ tourney deathmatch and numerous Troop missions with only one selected troop choice, which allows use to get unique upgrades which I will state! Also, I'll be tossing in some names and backstories for each of my units and the army's role in this campaign, so I hope ya enjoy this!

The Heroes of Hoch : From the planet Hoch, a growing, infant Hive World located on the Eastern Fringe of the Imperium, comes the Heroes of Hoch; an efficient, strong mechanized force whom still hold their Germanic-esque, traditional values of when they were still a Feudal World some millenniums ago. Led by the experienced Heinrich Wolfe, a commander who personally visits the majority of battles in his faithful Chimera, the Ol' Reliant, his army is consisted of skilled veterans of many battles whom carry the best equipment available to them and are carried into battle by their faithful steeds, the Chimeras, and are followed swiftly by squadrons of tanks, each named after a Legend of Hoch. Despite their mechanized power, the Hochlanders still respect and permit the use of close-combat units on the battlefield, such as their hulking ogryn or the fool-hardy knights who ride upon their horses still, to honour their family names. Psykers are both feared for their powerful connection to the warp but are respected and used as advisers for the Lords and Commanders of the planet, and occasionally implemented in battle, with hesitation.

With the nearby sector of Ferrum having gone dark so suddenly, Wolfe has permitted a solid force to board the Bismarck, one of their finest ships, and go investigate the Ferrum sector, and see if their is a threat that could move to their sector, and to exterminate any threat without prejudice.

CCS : Wolfe's Warriors

Led by Heinrich Wolfe, the men alongside him are the most elite of the men in the force, tasked with guarding their Commander, to advise him in times of need, and to also purge any forces that threaten the safety of Hoch.

(Upgraded to all be BS5)

Master of Ordnance
Bolt Pistol
Autocannon
Heavy Flamer
Carapace
Melta Bomb
4x Krak
Chimera (Heavy Stubber + Camo + Dozer Blade)
213

Veterans : The Hunters of Hoch

One of the most tenacious, wild squads to fight alongside Wolfe, each Hunter Recruit is only truly accepted after they have personally set out into the wild lands of Hoch with only few supplies, a combat knife and a bow (with some arrows), and hunted down one of the dangerous, wild beasts and skinned it. Whenever a recruit returns, bearing their wounds and scars of combat with pride to their new squad members, they now wear the skinned hide of the beast as a cloak wherever they go. The Hunters, when on the battlefield, seek out the fiercest beasts and attempt to bring them down, mounting their prize on their own Chimera.

(Upgraded to all be BS5 with Preferred Enemy : Tyranids)

Bolter
2x Plasma
Autocannon
Krak
Grenadiers
Chimera (Heavy Stubber)
196

Veterans : The Grenadiers

The Grenadiers are one of the few skilled warriors in Hoch's armies that have adapted their look also to suit their growing technology, replacing feathered caps and grand mustaches with firm, safe helmets and glowing, golden berets. Often bickering with the more traditional squads of men, The Grenadiers are however regarded still as a vital squad by their peers, who with their strong, disciplined teamwork and tactics, will plow into the midst of battle with their Chimera to burst tanks with their meltas and to light the survivors in blazing fires, rarely faltering in battle in this duty.

Bolt Pistol
2x Meltas
Krak
Grenadiers
Chimera (Dozer Blade + Heavy Stubber)
191

Leman Russ Battle Tank : Wilhelm II

Wilhelm II was named after the Legend of Hoch who so desired to unite Hoch as a singular entity, when the planet was just rising out from their Feudal Age (After a number of Mechanicum Researchers discovered valuable materials and xeno tech buried under planet's crust just a century before) and was still fractured into numerous states under many Kaisers and Leaders with conflicting beliefs and governments. Wilhlem II reformed his military, training them to become the most disciplined and well-armed army on Hoch, and like the Named Tank, his army's struck hard and explosively, scattering any opposing force about whilst they struck the key points of their opponents, eventually leading to their downfall. The World War, it seemed, ended up in just four years, and was a rousing success for Wilhelm II, establishing the first-ever, singular, planetary Government on Hoch, under his leadership, and soon led to the rise of the planet as a militaristic world that belched out some of the best guardsmen in the sector.

150

Total : 750 Points