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Masque I - (945pts)

[165pts] Troupe - 6x Harlequins with 5x Kisses, Haywire Grenade, Storied Sword (Troupe master warlord)

[310pts] 2xTroupe - 6x Harlequins with 5x Kisses, Haywire Grenade, Power Sword

[140pts] 2xStarweavers

[75pts] Voidweaver

[255pts] 3xShadowseers - Mastery level 2


Masque II - (905pts)

[435pts] 3xTroupe - 6x Harlequins with 6x Embraces, Haywire Grenade

[140pts] 2xStarweavers

[75pts] Voidweaver

[255pts] 3xShadowseers - Mastery level 2

Total 1850pts

How viable do people think this list is? From casual games to casual competitive friendly games to tournaments?

The tactics are to use veil of tears on each troupe to get them into combat as undamaged as possible. Shadowseers to each join a Troupe.

The starweavers are their for fire support and to fill up the fast attack slots, but if terrain allows to put troupes in them out of line of sight of the enemy at all times, to give them the additional 6" threat range (Starweaver moves 6", troupe disembarks 6", runs D6" Charges 2D6").

Voidweavers to provide additional Haywire hits.

Both Voidweavers and Starweavers to use their speed to get objectives if needed as well

The Kiss+Sword Troupes against better armoured enemies, the Embrace Troupes against enemies that require weight of numbers from all the strength 6 hammer of wrath.

Thoughts and opinions?

I am assuming voideweavers have haywire cannons instead of prism cannon thing.

I think its viable as a casual list and viable as a conditional competitive list.

The conditions it is competitive in-
You face no real armored threats(vehicles with AV, even AV 12 is going to give you trouble. This list can do well against mostly infantry lists, and that's its strength. Against flyers, armored vehicles, even GMC this list has very little.

I Would replacece some of the kisses/embraces in each troupe with caresses, for the 6's auto glance on vehicles. 2 in each troupe would do you well. I would also consider dropping 1-2 shadowseer and upgrading the rest of the troups to have troupe masters with haywire if you plan to play this in a competitive setting(tournaments)

AV 12 and below shouldn't give me any problems as two Voidweavers have two Haywire blasts and 6 shuriken canon shots and 24 shuriken canon shots from the starweavers, heavier armour can be dealt with by the haywire blasts partly and would be able to be grenaded when the troupes get up close.

Anything that flies can be dealt with by shuriken cannons too, GMC's would require a lot of focused fire but could be ignored until the rest of the enemies are neutralised

The two different troupe types are supposed to be better against certain enemies so are armed accordingly. I think D3 strength 6 hammer of wrath attacks on top of their regular attacks is much better than hoping for 6's

My troupe masters all have haywire grenades already?

MSU with Harlequins sounds interesting. I'm glad to see you equipped all of them with an upgrade CCW of some sort to give them more punching power.

To be more effective against vehicle heavy armies I recommend splintering off the attached Shadowseer so you can get an extra thrown Haywire Grenade prior to the Troupe to which it was attached and the SS charge.

Yes I do think I may need to equip my Shadowseers with haywire grenades, it would mean losing either some close combat weapons or some troupe harlequins, but to see what needs switching out I think I will need to play some games with the current list

I would be curious to hear how this list would do in a competitive realm!

I think the squads are too small. The biggest gripe I have with the Harley book is the lackof abnormal cad or the pressure to play a certain formation coupled with the fact that their transports are so lacking. Dark Eldar suffer from the same problem I n a lot of ways.

If you take this formation, you have to take these over-costed vehicles that are poor transports and poor anti tank and don't really serve a purpose. The same could be said for the jetbikes. So you have half of a normal code where half of the units don't serve a viable purpose in competitive or casual settings and really you are left with a quarter of a codex, hence the allies are almost necessary

If you go second against any competitive list in my area there is a solid chance you could be tabled before you even got a chance to go.

 Korlandril wrote:
AV 12 and below shouldn't give me any problems as two Voidweavers have two Haywire blasts and 6 shuriken canon shots and 24 shuriken canon shots from the starweavers, heavier armour can be dealt with by the haywire blasts partly and would be able to be grenaded when the troupes get up close.

Anything that flies can be dealt with by shuriken cannons too, GMC's would require a lot of focused fire but could be ignored until the rest of the enemies are neutralised

The two different troupe types are supposed to be better against certain enemies so are armed accordingly. I think D3 strength 6 hammer of wrath attacks on top of their regular attacks is much better than hoping for 6's

My troupe masters all have haywire grenades already?

If you think so.....

30 shuriken cannon shots averages 20 hits, against av 12 you will see 2 glances half the time. Against av 11 you will see about 6 glances half the time.

Haywire cannons can scatter or roll 1s on the haywire chart. Overall on average all the ranged shooting you have will kill 1 av 12 vehicle or 2 av11 vehicles with 3 bps a turn. Not including cover or saves which reduce that.

I think your army is very kitten against any transport or vehicle heavy armies. But yes a SInGLE av 11 or 12 vehicle won't give you any problem if you can fire your entire army at it.

Their not all bad, all get a one use 4+ invulnerable save, the transports and Voidweavers, they do have a lot of fire power with double shuriken cannons and haywire canon for the Voidweavers

Going 2nd would have to be prepared for/against, I will hide the squads but 2 all in starweavers and use the 4++ maybe, and will be rolling on the table for the ability that adds 4 to seize the initiative with a reroll too to try and get that. Using as much cover and LOS blocking terrain as I can.

What type of competitive lists do you see in your area?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

blaktoof wrote:

 Korlandril wrote:
AV 12 and below shouldn't give me any problems as two Voidweavers have two Haywire blasts and 6 shuriken canon shots and 24 shuriken canon shots from the starweavers, heavier armour can be dealt with by the haywire blasts partly and would be able to be grenaded when the troupes get up close.

Anything that flies can be dealt with by shuriken cannons too, GMC's would require a lot of focused fire but could be ignored until the rest of the enemies are neutralised

The two different troupe types are supposed to be better against certain enemies so are armed accordingly. I think D3 strength 6 hammer of wrath attacks on top of their regular attacks is much better than hoping for 6's

My troupe masters all have haywire grenades already?

If you think so.....

30 shuriken cannon shots averages 20 hits, against av 12 you will see 2 glances half the time. Against av 11 you will see about 6 glances half the time.

Haywire cannons can scatter or roll 1s on the haywire chart. Overall on average all the ranged shooting you have will kill 1 av 12 vehicle or 2 av11 vehicles with 3 bps a turn. Not including cover or saves which reduce that.

I think your army is very kitten against any transport or vehicle heavy armies. But yes a SInGLE av 11 or 12 vehicle won't give you any problem if you can fire your entire army at it.

They are just support, the main anti tank comes from troupes in combat, hitting against juicy rear armour plus haywire grenades

 Korlandril wrote:
Their not all bad, all get a one use 4+ invulnerable save, the transports and Voidweavers, they do have a lot of fire power with double shuriken cannons and haywire canon for the Voidweavers

Going 2nd would have to be prepared for/against, I will hide the squads but 2 all in starweavers and use the 4++ maybe, and will be rolling on the table for the ability that adds 4 to seize the initiative with a reroll too to try and get that. Using as much cover and LOS blocking terrain as I can.

What type of competitive lists do you see in your area?

Your Voidweavers will have realistically only 3 Shuriken shots and the Haywire Cannon as the other Shuriken Cannon points to the rear and will likely be snap shooting at a different unit entirely (assuming you position yourself to have both front and rear arcs accommodated).

It's a shame you can't fit in Skyweavers to both lists, but I understand why you don't.

Lord Commissar wrote:If you go second against any competitive list in my area there is a solid chance you could be tabled before you even got a chance to go.

There are so many units here I find it very difficult to see this getting tabled the top of Turn 1. Declarations of Mirage Launchers across the board for all the vehicles will force more devoted firepower than the opponent would care to dedicate to some of the units. Others can be nestled behind LoS blocking terrain or areas of the board that are out of range. This doesn't mean the Harlequins can't be grievously wounded against an aggressively gunline army, but tabling will be very hard to accomplish.

Tropic Thunder wrote:

Spoiler:

 Korlandril wrote:
Their not all bad, all get a one use 4+ invulnerable save, the transports and Voidweavers, they do have a lot of fire power with double shuriken cannons and haywire canon for the Voidweavers

Going 2nd would have to be prepared for/against, I will hide the squads but 2 all in starweavers and use the 4++ maybe, and will be rolling on the table for the ability that adds 4 to seize the initiative with a reroll too to try and get that. Using as much cover and LOS blocking terrain as I can.

What type of competitive lists do you see in your area?

Your Voidweavers will have realistically only 3 Shuriken shots and the Haywire Cannon as the other Shuriken Cannon points to the rear and will likely be snap shooting at a different unit entirely (assuming you position yourself to have both front and rear arcs accommodated).

It's a shame you can't fit in Skyweavers to both lists, but I understand why you don't.

Spoiler:

Lord Commissar wrote:If you go second against any competitive list in my area there is a solid chance you could be tabled before you even got a chance to go.

There are so many units here I find it very difficult to see this getting tabled the top of Turn 1. Declarations of Mirage Launchers across the board for all the vehicles will force more devoted firepower than the opponent would care to dedicate to some of the units. Others can be nestled behind LoS blocking terrain or areas of the board that are out of range. This doesn't mean the Harlequins can't be grievously wounded against an aggressively gunline army, but tabling will be very hard to accomplish.

I actually think the rear facing shuriken cannons will be most effective against the kind of lists that deep strike turn 1 as it would be easy to position my Voidweavers where they can use all their guns

Why would they be snap shooting? Fast skimmer so should still get all their weapons at full BS

I think Skyweavers suffer from being split to much between a shooting and assault unit, they would be better if they had two close combat weapons for extra attacks, they might be worth the points more, you pay too much for their versatility

It would be a risk getting so close to Harlequins that they can easily assault turn one, hopefully that would deter that sort of play

 Korlandril wrote:

Tropic Thunder wrote:
Your Voidweavers will have realistically only 3 Shuriken shots and the Haywire Cannon as the other Shuriken Cannon points to the rear and will likely be snap shooting at a different unit entirely (assuming you position yourself to have both front and rear arcs accommodated).

I actually think the rear facing shuriken cannons will be most effective against the kind of lists that deep strike turn 1 as it would be easy to position my Voidweavers where they can use all their guns

Why would they be snap shooting? Fast skimmer so should still get all their weapons at full BS

The moment you move over 6" with the Voidweaver you can only fire two weapons at full BS. In my personal experience I rarely move Combat Speed with them. Unless your opponent is extremely accommodating, you will likely need 7+" of movement in order to fire at targets front and back.

I think Skyweavers suffer from being split to much between a shooting and assault unit, they would be better if they had two close combat weapons for extra attacks, they might be worth the points more, you pay too much for their versatility

It would be a risk getting so close to Harlequins that they can easily assault turn one, hopefully that would deter that sort of play

I haven't had the same experience with them. To me their ideal at both. Because of Hit & Run I always have the option of getting out of combat, shooting at something and charging anew. I also find the threat of them discombobulates the opponent more than anything. While small units of Skyweavers aren't that threatening, a full squad of six is extremely disconcerting to deal with. A full squad isn't an option in your list design, though. Again, I have no issues with you holding them out.

Tropic Thunder wrote:

Spoiler:

 Korlandril wrote:

Tropic Thunder wrote:
Your Voidweavers will have realistically only 3 Shuriken shots and the Haywire Cannon as the other Shuriken Cannon points to the rear and will likely be snap shooting at a different unit entirely (assuming you position yourself to have both front and rear arcs accommodated).

I actually think the rear facing shuriken cannons will be most effective against the kind of lists that deep strike turn 1 as it would be easy to position my Voidweavers where they can use all their guns

Why would they be snap shooting? Fast skimmer so should still get all their weapons at full BS

The moment you move over 6" with the Voidweaver you can only fire two weapons at full BS. In my personal experience I rarely move Combat Speed with them. Unless your opponent is extremely accommodating, you will likely need 7+" of movement in order to fire at targets front and back.

Spoiler:

I think Skyweavers suffer from being split to much between a shooting and assault unit, they would be better if they had two close combat weapons for extra attacks, they might be worth the points more, you pay too much for their versatility

It would be a risk getting so close to Harlequins that they can easily assault turn one, hopefully that would deter that sort of play

I haven't had the same experience with them. To me their ideal at both. Because of Hit & Run I always have the option of getting out of combat, shooting at something and charging anew. I also find the threat of them discombobulates the opponent more than anything. While small units of Skyweavers aren't that threatening, a full squad of six is extremely disconcerting to deal with. A full squad isn't an option in your list design, though. Again, I have no issues with you holding them out.

You are correct, its something I would have to bear in mind, I could position in such a way that the opponent deep strikes in a way for me to not have to move that far and make use of all weapons. If their are enemy fliers I would already be snapshooting at them so could just fire the rear weapons at flyers

Yes for this list they wont work at the points level, but if I were to play higher points I could take out one or two Starweavers and have big squads of jetbikes instead, or even double the troupe sizes to reduce it down to one masque then I would be able to get rid of a Voidweaver too.

Thank you for the feedback