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want a heavy assault list with vanguard and assault marines. I was thinking white scars for the hit and run being nice plus getting khan on a bike to make my bike units now core and everything getting a scout move?

Raven Guard good for your jump pack Vanguard and ASM, while some formations even more buffed.

Yeah Raven guard look good to but the ability to be able to disengage with white scars and then engage again with maybe another unit if I wish in assault sounds really good plus getting that scout move with Khan at the beginning of the game will be handy

Blood Angels.... oh wait

Yes, the answer is white scars, but hit and run isn't just good for assault, it's good for shooty armies as well. Being able to shoot, assault, hide from your opponents shooting in the assault, and then disengage only to rinse and repeat as an armywide buff is broken as hell.

I'm ok with you doing it if you've actually painted your army to be white scars...painting that much white to a high standard is a pain...but having a bunch of blue, black, red, or grey marines hanging out with Khan on his off day (as evidenced by the fact he's unpainted and on a normal marine bike of some sort) hit and running all over the board is just annoying as all get out. Have some pride peeps!

SPACE SHARKS!

Raven Guard or Blood Angels, undoubtedly. Raven Guard are the better army overall, with assault from deepstrike in one of their formations and the ability to use jump packs in both movement and assault (with shred on HoW). But at the end of the day theyre just bringing a bunch of str4 init4 ws4 attacks. This can be affective against most xenos, but falls short against other marines without giving them a rather large investment of power weapons.

Blood Angels lack the assault from deepstrike (whithout a really expensive formation) and some of the toys that vanilla marines get, but have better assault units overall. Armywide furious charge (with either +1 init or conditional rage depending on your FoC), ws and fnp buffs from priests, cheap psychic buffs from librarians, and flat out better assault units like Sanguinary Guard or Death Company make them a viable option.

Essentially, while Raven Guard are the better force as a whole, if you want an assault oriented marine force it comes down to whether you want tricks and toys (Raven Guard) or muscle and better assault units (Blood Angels).

Raven guard are sounding interesting. Hit and run on white scars is very op but with nearly everything being initiative 4 in the army I would need to roll 4 or less on 2 dice to disengage out of assault which probably won't happen that often unless I have the hit and run rule wrong?


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Or do I have that wrong and I need to roll over their initiative score. If that's the case then I would get hit and run off quite often?

You've got that wrong. Scars have only a 33% chance of muffing their Hit&Run rolls (roll less than or equal to their Initiative on 1d6, not 2d6, 6 always fails).

And yes, this has the curious result of making I5 and I10 equally good at bugging out of combat...

Imo
Blood Angels<Raven Guard><White Scars

HOWEVER I still think Raven Guard would be the best for assault. The new formations really help them and I cant help but feel White Scars are only semi-assault. Also, unless you are quite skilled at painting, painting up an entire army of White Scars may be a struggle
.

From a competitive standpoint BA are once again behind SM, and don't have the formations or points changes required to keep them competitively viable.

This may be wrong, but in my local meta BA always find themselves having a hard time, and I don't see them often in larger tourneys doing particularly amazing either.>

Thanks for that. Rolling for initiative on just the 1 dice isn't so bad I guess at mainly I4 isn't so bad. I have no problem with painting a entire army in white as I don't think it's that much of a bad colour to paint. Just blend up from grey to white and you don't even need to worry about edge highlighting either apart from the red shoulder trim. The only problem with a white army is I think it looks boring compared to other chapters. May paint them differently to white. Maybe blue so I can play them as ultramarines and white scars if I want and just say their a white scars successor chapter.

I just tell people I play Blood Ravens who stole the armor they use from a wide variety of other chapters.

Blood Ravens chapter tactics state they can use anyone chapter tactics and the fact that they steal everything is lore friendly. Everybody happy ^_^

On the actual topic though what about Black Templars? Assault is their entire shtick.

Blood Ravens it is then. Thanks for that so I can play any tactics I want now. If I played blood Ravens with white scars chapter tactics would I still be able to run Khan though and get his chapter benefits like the scout move? I don't think I could.

munnster wrote:
Blood Ravens it is then. Thanks for that so I can play any tactics I want now. If I played blood Ravens with white scars chapter tactics would I still be able to run Khan though and get his chapter benefits like the scout move? I don't think I could.

Thats actually a good questions lol. Characters are bound to their chapter tactics and Blood Ravens can take any chapter tactics.

I'm going gw today I'll ask them


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After going gw they convinced me Raven guard is the way to go


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So the Raven guard chapter tactics say that a unit with the jump unit type may use their jump pack in both the movement and assault phase of the same turn. The 40k rule book says that jump pack can only be used once either in the movement phase to move 12" or in the assault phase to re roll its charge distance so does that mean as a Raven guard I can A) move 12" in the movement phase plus another 12" in the assault phase even though I'm not charging anything and B) move 12" in the movement phase and still re roll my charge distance when charging something?


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Looks like 12" move in move phase plus re roll charge distance

What about black Templars. Hidden power fists and over watch makes them angry.

Space Sharks probably. Mantis Warriors if you have a lot of terrain.

Raven Guard also do well with their formations.

White Scars also have a banner in Kauyon that gives a 12" bubble of Fleet and Furious Charge. I've been having fun with that banner on a choppy command squad.