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I've had a little dilemma going on for a while (having "split" the 7th ed. BRB with a friend but not actually having it my my possession), and it has to do with how many attacks units have in assault, whether a bonus attack is gained on the charge, for having a CCW, for having multiple CCWs, etc. For the sake of brevity and my own understanding, I will discuss 3 models from the IG/AM, each should probably have different in close combat.


CASE I: The standard Imperial Guardsman. 1 attack base. Though they have no CCW, they still get 2 attacks on the charge, correct? Probably the easiest to resolve.

CASE II: The Infantry/Veteran Squad's Sergeant. 2 attacks base, but also a CCW in the profile. Does this CCW give the sarge an extra attack (from 2 to 3), or is this already counted in his statline (from 1 to 2)? What about on the charge? HIWPI, sergeants get 3 attacks with the charge, but quite frequently batreps I view and friendly opponents let him roll a 4th D6. If I should be playing with an extra attack, I would like to make sure I use it.

CASE III: Rough Riders. Go figure. 1 attack base. 2 CCW, but one is one use only. Does the possession of multiple CCW grant 1 bonus attack (probably translating to 0 for the case II), or yet another? HIWPI, Rough Riders get 3 attacks on their first charge with the hunting lances, and the RR sarge gets 4. Then the weapon "breaks", meaning they are reduced to 1 CCW, or they still have 2, with one simply unusable? Do they get more attacks on their first charge? Fewer? What about subsequent charges? These guys probably have the most grievously fuzzy rules with their CCWs, but clearing up the matter with these unfortunately underused guys should bring light to the number of attacks other units should receive.

Without going into too much detail (you can check that out when you get custody of the Rulebook back):

1) Correct

2) Extra attacks are (almost) never included in the base profile - otherwise problems would occur when the model swaps the ccw for another weapon, or it is otherwise lost to some effect. You do not get a bonus attack for having a ccw, but you do for having a second, which is what makes it 4 on the charge (a pistol counts as a ccw in an assault).

3) Rough Riders actually have between three and four weapons, depending on how you read the rule for the Hunting Lance, but it's irrelevant - non-Walker models can only gain +1 for having 2 ccws, and any after that have no effect other than versatility. A RR gets 3 attacks on the charge (1 base, 1 for charging, 1 for 2ccws) and the first time it does it gets the improved profile of the Hunting Lance.

For more info when you get the book back, check out pages 41 ("Close Combat Weapons" and "More Than One Weapon") and 49 ("Number of Attacks").

1) yes

2) the extra attack from the additional CCW is (nearly) never in the stat line, the Srgt. has base 2 attacks, +1 for 2 CCWs (pistol + CCW), and +1 if he charges. This mean he either has 3 attacks (if charged), and 4 attacks (if he charges)

3) it doesn't matter if you have 20 CCWs, you only get the +1 bonus for having at least 2 CCWs.

I'll go through a generic tactical marine;

His profile gives him base 1 attack.
His profile lists a bolt pistol, which gives him 1 CCW, not 2, so no +1 attack

If he charges, he gets 2 attacks (1 base, +1 for charge)

Up next, Assault marine:

His profile gives him base 1 attack.
His profile lists both a bolt pistol and chainsword (close combat weapon), giving him +1 attack

Were he to charge, he would have 3 attacks (1 base, +1 for charge, +1 for having at least 2 CCWs)

Hope this helped out a little bit!

Thank you for the information. The one thing that I did miss that confused me the most is Pistols counting as CCWs. With that, things make much more sense now.

Also the Hunting Lance is a specialist weapon so only 2 attacks on the charge when you use that.

 FlingitNow wrote:
Also the Hunting Lance is a specialist weapon so only 2 attacks on the charge when you use that.

Ah, so it is, I missed that. Thanks Fling.

Ah, but I can use my new-found knowledge to respond with this: Unless upgraded with other things, they come standard with regular CCW and pistols, and the pistols count as second CCWs! Learning ftw

 KommissarKiln wrote:
Ah, but I can use my new-found knowledge to respond with this: Unless upgraded with other things, they come standard with regular CCW and pistols, and the pistols count as second CCWs! Learning ftw

True, but you can only get an extra attack in close combat with a "specialist weapon" if you have a second weapon that is "specialist weapon". Now you could elect to not attack with the specialist weapon under normal circumstances, but the Rough Rider rules say they have to use their hunting lance on the first turn they charge. So no matter what, the first turn you charge with them they will get 2 attacks.

Exactly so.

Specialist Weapon is a rule that means you can only get the +1 attack bonus when paired with another Specialist Weapon (although not necessarily another identical one).

The most recognisable one is the Lightning Claw, which is why they tend to appear on models in pairs; a lightning claw is slightly better than a power sword, but the difference is fairly minimal because you get an extra attack with the sword unless you're prepared to shell out the points to replace your pistol with a claw as well.

 KommissarKiln wrote:
Ah, but I can use my new-found knowledge to respond with this: Unless upgraded with other things, they come standard with regular CCW and pistols, and the pistols count as second CCWs! Learning ftw

To clarify what the others are saying: if you charge with rough riders and use the pistol or ccw(in other words you use the ccw or ccw); then yes you get 3 attacks(1 base+1 for charge+1 for multiple melee weapons). But if you charge and use the one use only specialist lance you only get 2(1 base+1 for charge, no bonus for multiple weapons because only the one you are using has specialist).

Alrighty, thanks for helping me clear up this matter. I guess the RRs are still underwhelming then-- 3 attacks with their hunting lances would've been a much bigger deal against their MEQ target... but they'll still probably lose a bunch of guys in overwatch, given their stats...

The biggest thing I learned from thread is the pistol = CCW if you're in CC rule. Thanks again, everyone!