Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

So I'm a sucker for the AM lore currently, with squishy humans braving the odds against the worst of the worst in the 40k Universe, and mutants and tanks going crazy all around! Now I've seen many people discuss various changes, such as the RR's or the very awesome Regimental Command Unit done by Cothonian, excellent work! So here's a few ideas, and hopefully they'll try and shift people into using the more fun units like they should do!

1. Make Ogryns 25 Points, thus a typical 3 man squad with the Bone 'ead would be 85 Points, I'd say that's certainly more reasonable, especially for just basic Ogryns. Bullgryns then should be 100 Points all together, 30 Points each, with the Power Maul and Shield Upgrade also becoming just a +10 points upgrade. This means for the Character of Nork Deddog, change his points towards 50 points instead!

2. Allow any Veteran Squad +CCS Vets to have the ability to take bolters individually for 1 Point each.. Since they're veterans, they'd likely be trusted with better weaponry, as they already get access to carapace, melta bombs, etc, so why not bolters? Though my main concern is that people would just run Veterans with bolters all the time!

3. Ratlings. Love the fluff on these gits, but to have these lot become more viable, it could be useful to give them camo cloaks alongside their currents rules (Stealth), and they may be able to gain Precision Shots (Or Rending, who knows) with their snipers on a 5+, rather than the typical 6+. Then they'd be much more worrisome I'd say.

4. Make Wyrdvanes 50 Points for five of them, I'd say that's fair, perhaps.

5. Harker. Give him the outflank and stealth rule for him and his squad, change him to 40 points, and I'm contemplating removing that squad's ban on carapace armour.

6. Make the Hellhound a 100 Points, the Devildog to be 110 Points, and the Bane Wolf to be 105 Points. Making them the cheaper, quicker, yet weaker alternatives to tanks. The tanks themselves? I may come back, difficult to decide on what to, and not to, change about them.

7. Give Conscripts the option for Las Pistol + Close Combat Weapon, and/or Stubber Pistol + Close Combat Weapon.

8. Change Shotguns to S4, Assault 2, AP - Weapons, still at 12 inches. Lack the range, but will definitely be much stronger I'd say.

I'm leaving HQs alone for now, as I don't think it's fair to do so without the resources to compare them to other HQs from other codexes.

Love these ideas..ratlings and conscript ideas are great.
Ogryns are fine for now ...had real problems going against them last game.
Do you have points and stats for beastmen????

The only question for whether these are good or not this: do you have any models for guard veterans with bolters, or at least specific plans for how and when you will build some ? If yes then they are good rules.

I shouldn't say there is any reason to worry about people using bolter veterans too much. From one perspective, anyone looking for an army that is powerful would spend points on something else, and from another perspective, someone who is going to both build noon-standard bolter armed models and also play with non-official rules for them can likely be trusted not to misuse the rules.

pelicaniforce wrote:
The only question for whether these are good or not this: do you have any models for guard veterans with bolters, or at least specific plans for how and when you will build some ? If yes then they are good rules.

I shouldn't say there is any reason to worry about people using bolter veterans too much. From one perspective, anyone looking for an army that is powerful would spend points on something else, and from another perspective, someone who is going to both build noon-standard bolter armed models and also play with non-official rules for them can likely be trusted not to misuse the rules.

I'll build some with the use of Forgeworld, you can buy many variants of Bolters which I do like, so there are some much sleeker, smaller versions that would fit a guard model easier, and would only require minor tweaks with the models themselves to have it work! And true, I thought these ideas may be helpful for other people that wanna test these for their non-official rules and such or just be some ideas for myself to use in the future for non-official games.

I forgot who said it first (sorry!), but I wouldn't mind keeping the Bane Wolf at the same, or nearly the same, price if its template gains Torrent like its Hellhound cousin.

But then the hellhound would be nearly pointlePersonally, I'd put the hellhound at AP 3 and give the banewolf a new rule regarding the amount of poison it spews and give it 1d3 wounds vs MC's and GC's. It would help a lot sine it usually does after its first strike.

Conscripts do NOT need pistol + ccw. With the melee buffs Guard get they'd be one of the best CC units in the game!

 raverrn wrote:
Conscripts do NOT need pistol + ccw. With the melee buffs Guard get they'd be one of the best CC units in the game!

Wait wait wait, did you just say 'Guard' and 'Melee buffs'?
Please remind me again which ones we get, I cant recall on account of all my Guardsmen whom have been killed in melee.

@OP:
I like this list, keep it up! Maybe a 10 point upgrade to vehicles to give them a +1 to BS?

Lehman Russ is an easy fix ..leave points alone and just +1 HP and the LR is Fixed...

morfydd wrote:
Lehman Russ is an easy fix ..leave points alone and just +1 HP and the LR is Fixed...

You're kidding right? The Leman Russ, short of being taken with Pask (which then gets exorbitantly expensive with the additional LR you have to take with LR tank commanders) and certain variants like the Eradicator or the Exterminator, has fallen from grace as one of the mainline tank units as now other codices are getting the ability to squadron as well, and with the rise of Super Heavies and GMC, AV14 and 4HP doesn't mean much to strength D and haywire spam.

At the very least LR need to gain Lumbering Behemoth back or some other rule that allows them to fire ordnance without having to snapshot the rest of their weapons. This is in addition to lowering points down for demolishers and LRBT since large blasts have lost a lot of utility this edition since they do so little against MC and SHW. If blast templates did D3 wounds on models under the central hole at least then it would have a little more utility. The Executioner's main cannon should lose the Gets Hot! rule, and the Punisher should get something baseline like rending or shred to make it more palatable, as outside of Pask it doesn't do much the others don't.

 Grimskul wrote:

morfydd wrote:
Lehman Russ is an easy fix ..leave points alone and just +1 HP and the LR is Fixed...

You're kidding right? The Leman Russ, short of being taken with Pask (which then gets exorbitantly expensive with the additional LR you have to take with LR tank commanders) and certain variants like the Eradicator or the Exterminator, has fallen from grace as one of the mainline tank units as now other codices are getting the ability to squadron as well, and with the rise of Super Heavies and GMC, AV14 and 4HP doesn't mean much to strength D and haywire spam.

At the very least LR need to gain Lumbering Behemoth back or some other rule that allows them to fire ordnance without having to snapshot the rest of their weapons. This is in addition to lowering points down for demolishers and LRBT since large blasts have lost a lot of utility this edition since they do so little against MC and SHW. If blast templates did D3 wounds on models under the central hole at least then it would have a little more utility. The Executioner's main cannon should lose the Gets Hot! rule, and the Punisher should get something baseline like rending or shred to make it more palatable, as outside of Pask it doesn't do much the others don't.

Now I don't wholly disagree with morfydd, 4 HP would be overall a very nice and realistic buff. But I would also want Lumbering Behemoth back as well, for the same cost as we have now. Otherwise the regular Battle Tank and Demolisher would still feel a lot less useful.

Alright, thought I'd come back to this, and use some of what you people have thought of for additional changes to the codex that would be great!

Rule/Equipment Changes :

- Lumbering Behemoth for LRBT variants (Preferably LRBT and the Demolisher Variant)

- Make Heavy Weapons Squads a 30 Point Unit, I think that's somewhat fairer, yes? (Makes mortar teams cheaper than Wyverns!)

- Plasma Pistols become 10 Points (More risk for AM units and it's a shorter range with no rapid fire so why not?)

- Power Weapons become 10 Points now (Again, cause AM units be squishier)

- Chimeras may replace their Multilasers with Autocannons (5 Points)

Also been thinking of implementing homebrew units here as fun ideas for later in the future, so if you want to, throw some suggestions in here!

Try knocking around 20% of the points off all Leman Russ variants and 50% off the Hellhound variants.
Drop 30% from the Sentinels as well then we can talk.

Not a major change but making the emperors blade assault company a formation would be nice the cheaper points cost allowing more auxiliary choices to be added. Not game changing but definitely make fielding the detachment more palatable.

Would like some changes to differentiate the chimera and taurox, my vote would be make the chimera bolter proof on the sides by making all chimera chassis based vehicles 12/12/10 while the taurox can be cheap fast but flimsy.

Seconding point reductions to hellhounds, power weapons and plasma pistols as well as bring back lumbering behemoth

Seconding the changes to plasma pistols and power weapons - these are already too expensive for everyone who can take them, so at least fixing them here is a start.

Also seconding the Wyrdvane Psykers change - 10 points is what a basic Inquisitorial retinue psyker costs, and they can do the same thing as a Wyrdvane (in fact, most folks use Wyrdvane models for them). So, why not.

I'd like to see ratlings be able to move shoot and move, their current rule which allows them to shoot and then move is mostly useless right now but having them be able to jump out of cover shoot and then move back in would be great!

I like this, I just want to see HWT mortars get a buff to make them competitive to Wyverns. I put in another thread, about them using smoke rounds similar to smoke launchers but can target other friendly AM units, or even better using color smoke marking rounds, which would mark an enemy unit, decreasing 1d6 scatter for Basilisks or MoO firing. I think AM getting cool random gear choices, wouldn't change the balance of the game, just make the AM what they are suppose to be, the multi-tool of the Imperium.