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What were forgeworld thinking when they released them? Pricing in points is hugely inadequate even when comparing some units inside the list, not to mention other lists:

5 points for guardsman in 4+, with kraks, godlike lasguns, a number of minor buffs and small command squad included on top of that for free. Same goes for Tactical Command Section where you can double their amount of wounds for mere 25 points.

Dracosan Demolisher. When compared to Leman Russ Demolisher (from heavy support!) its ridiculous: cheaper, takes no slots, tons of options and transport to begin with.

Malcador pricing when compared to Leman Russ (30k variant) is strange: it can fire on the move at different targets, it doesnt explode so easily, it has sponsons and you can hide a squad of engineers behind it. And thats for such a little increase in price.

Talking about engineers: for 135 points you get a bunch of T5 dudes that can repair vehicles 3 times a turn on a roll of 2+. Legion servitors have the same stats and less options but cost 12 points compared to 5 in solar auxilia.

And household upgrade for veletarii for 0 points, and 3++ for 15 points with awesome save when you roll 1, and so on. Only artillery and cyclops in my opinion are underpowered.

I like the look of the army so much, but the rules make me feel depressed cause i know, no one will play against this.

Are you saying the list is inconsistent with itself, or when compared to a 40K list? 30K is not a good fit for playing against 40K. For one, 30K really doesn't come into its own until 2,500-3,000 points. A 40K army at that level is very different then what you see at say, 1850 points. Below 2,500 points, a 30K army can be either very, very broken (A Space Marine Legion player playing a Warhound Titan at 1,500 points sucks) or at a big disadvantage against a 40K army.

 Tamwulf wrote:
Are you saying the list is inconsistent with itself, or when compared to a 40K list? 30K is not a good fit for playing against 40K. For one, 30K really doesn't come into its own until 2,500-3,000 points. A 40K army at that level is very different then what you see at say, 1850 points. Below 2,500 points, a 30K army can be either very, very broken (A Space Marine Legion player playing a Warhound Titan at 1,500 points sucks) or at a big disadvantage against a 40K army.

You can't take a LoW under 2k, and they are limited to 25% of your army. You won't see Warhounds until like 3k.

Benito0 wrote:
What were forgeworld thinking when they released them? Pricing in points is hugely inadequate even when comparing some units inside the list, not to mention other lists:

5 points for guardsman in 4+, with kraks, godlike lasguns, a number of minor buffs and small command squad included on top of that for free. Same goes for Tactical Command Section where you can double their amount of wounds for mere 25 points.

Dracosan Demolisher. When compared to Leman Russ Demolisher (from heavy support!) its ridiculous: cheaper, takes no slots, tons of options and transport to begin with.

Malcador pricing when compared to Leman Russ (30k variant) is strange: it can fire on the move at different targets, it doesnt explode so easily, it has sponsons and you can hide a squad of engineers behind it. And thats for such a little increase in price.

Talking about engineers: for 135 points you get a bunch of T5 dudes that can repair vehicles 3 times a turn on a roll of 2+. Legion servitors have the same stats and less options but cost 12 points compared to 5 in solar auxilia.

And household upgrade for veletarii for 0 points, and 3++ for 15 points with awesome save when you roll 1, and so on. Only artillery and cyclops in my opinion are underpowered.

I like the look of the army so much, but the rules make me feel depressed cause i know, no one will play against this.

As a solar player and a world eater player, auxilia are priced correctly, they don't have "godlike" lasguns, they have some options with them that replaces the loss of heavy and special weapons.

30" str3 rapid fire
36" heavy 2 str3
Str6 18"

Hardly godlike.

4+ save is meh in 30k and 40k, so easy to wipe a unit a turn.
The Dracosan is very good, but it can't transport it's own unit if taking the Demolisher, it's also got a large profile and is very easy to hit in the weaker Side, it's too cheap would be my only complaint here.

Heavy support super heavies isn't too bad either, as all of them are very easy to kill in 30k.

I'm also a Solar Auxilia player at around 3,000 points painted. The point values are setup in an odd manner but trust me when I say that we're definitely not set to suddenly take over the table, especially against 40k opponents.

I had the harrowing experience of a Tau player watching me unpack my army in the store and then playing a 2500 point game against him. To say it was a slaughter house would be putting it lightly, after he one shot tore through one of my Dracosans right on the Flare Shield and caused it to explode (with 2 Veletaris Storm Sections mounted up onboard) it was a cringe worthy affair.

Mind you I just got back into the hobby last year and I' had never even played a Tau opponent...but this was just a blood bath due to Formations etc. on his end. I've taken...drastic measures to make sure this does not occur again (I'm looking at you Stormhammer/Atrapos Knight) and will be adding another Knight shortly to create an Allied Detachment of Questoris Knights as well.

My favorite part about this force is it's sheer adaptability and as I fight more opponents, expanding my options, I think I'm going to be able to play them very competitively without breaking out of my fluff. For instance, I don't use lasrifle sections, but I'm addressing the ranged fire issue related to that currently...or as quickly as FW packages can make their way across the Atlantic.

I will say this though, out of all of the things you pointed out about the Solar Auxilia, you didn't point a finger at their bizarre Lord of War rule. I admit on first pass through the book that I missed it too but they can actually take *2* Lords of War as long as they are of a similar unit type and under 8 HP or they can take one 9+ HP Lord of War.

Which means you can snag two Knights for their Lords of War as Questoris, without the household benefit, or even just one as they are apparently the only ones capable of this outside of the Mechanicum. This is the only book (HH4: Conquest) I have though, so I can't attest for that with 100% surety.

Benito0 wrote:

5 points for guardsman in 4+, with kraks, godlike lasguns, a number of minor buffs and small command squad included on top of that for free. Same goes for Tactical Command Section where you can double their amount of wounds for mere 25 points.

They're still just guardsmen. Codex IG squads pay 5 points per model for essentially the same thing, but with orders, smaller minimum squad sizes, and the ability to take heavy and special weapons. The main thing solar auxilia get in return is carapace armor by default, which isn't all that relevant when you're camping behind an ADL for a 4+ cover save. Meanwhile you have all the usual problems with claiming objectives away from your ADL without getting wiped off the table in a single turn. So those "awesome" guardsmen still suck at winning objective games.

Dracosan Demolisher. When compared to Leman Russ Demolisher (from heavy support!) its ridiculous: cheaper, takes no slots, tons of options and transport to begin with.

It also comes with the tax of the squad inside and weaker AV. Honestly, the problem isn't the Dracosan, it's the fact that the LR Demolisher isn't a very good unit even in codex IG armies.

Malcador pricing when compared to Leman Russ (30k variant) is strange: it can fire on the move at different targets, it doesnt explode so easily, it has sponsons and you can hide a squad of engineers behind it. And thats for such a little increase in price.

I don't know about "such a little increase in price". A fully-armed Malcador is 300+ points, hardly a small investment.

Talking about engineers: for 135 points you get a bunch of T5 dudes that can repair vehicles 3 times a turn on a roll of 2+. Legion servitors have the same stats and less options but cost 12 points compared to 5 in solar auxilia.

On the other hand their parent unit gets three separate sub-units in the same FOC slot, and a better stat line for the techmarine. The auxilia unit is probably better for repairing stuff, but you do give up something for the cheaper point cost.

And household upgrade for veletarii for 0 points

They're garbage. See the part where they become elites instead of troops? Only troops are scoring in 30k, that FOC slot shift is a crippling penalty.

3++ for 15 points with awesome save when you roll 1

Sure, an awesome save that just happens to come at the expense of taking your expensive HQ model out of its squad of meatshields where it will die soon after. And you still take the wound from the failed save.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Audemus wrote:
I admit on first pass through the book that I missed it too but they can actually take *2* Lords of War as long as they are of a similar unit type and under 8 HP or they can take one 9+ HP Lord of War.

This is true for every army in 30k. The ability to take up to three "small" LoW in a single FOC slot is just how LoW work.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Audemus wrote:
I admit on first pass through the book that I missed it too but they can actually take *2* Lords of War as long as they are of a similar unit type and under 8 HP or they can take one 9+ HP Lord of War.

This is true for every army in 30k. The ability to take up to three "small" LoW in a single FOC slot is just how LoW work.

If I remember right, Solar Auxilia where in top 3 in latest Finnish 30k tournament. In other hand main prizes did go to following categories: Most Enjoyable Opponent, Coolest Army Composition and Visually Best Army, so there weren't any WAAC players there any way.

Thx for answers everyone! Im a bit softened now, but not convinced.

So far i played 1 test game with a bit weakened roster, and i pretty much stomped Salamanders, here are our lists:
http://pastebin.com/RiYxCTNP
http://pastebin.com/c4BWSWhw

So changes are:

Lasrifle section size is halved, price still 100. Character, banner and vox are still there.

Dracosans are 4 hp and without demolishers.

Veletarii must pay for axes, but can choose other options if they want to (i brought volkites), households dont get prefered enemy.

We rolled mission 2 from book 2, i brought aegis so we agreed that i should defend. Tank commander chose pref enemy (inf), the WT was stealth in ruins.
I managed to immobilise Spartan with my medusa and rapiers and then blocked terminators with my dracosan (they didnt blow it up so they had to climb over it) and the rest of his army i just shot to death, at the end termies came but it was too late.

I will try a bit more, i know that 1 game isnt an indicator.

Speaking about cheap, how about 50 cultists with pistols and ccw, Ws 3 and 2 Attack, zealot and don't give victory points to your enemy. Cost: 125 points. Perfect cannon fodder and cheap ally troop choice for traitor army.

Thats scary...

The problem with Imperialis Militia, compared to Auxilia 'regulars' is that the squad doesn't come in platoons or tercios - you'll run out of slots (and deployment space) long before you run out of points.

Plus, I can attest that even Twisted Flesh/Cult Horde 50-man units will evaporate disturbingly quickly against the blizzard of quad launcher shells and frag missiles that a shooty legion can put out.

They are still disturbingly good cannon fodder, though. As noted, I prefer Twisted Flesh for the other provenance - Rending makes them vaguely dangerous if they actually reach the enemy.

Benito0 wrote:

So far i played 1 test game with a bit weakened roster, and i pretty much stomped Salamanders, here are our lists:
http://pastebin.com/RiYxCTNP
http://pastebin.com/c4BWSWhw

That Salamanders list is, well, no wonder you keep mashing him up. Instead of doing this and that to your list, can I recommend that your opponent head back to the drawing board and come up with a better force. That's generic as goodness knows what and the only reliable ranged anti-tank is the Spartan. Also, 700pts tied up into a deathstar, hmmmm....

As that Spartan is the only vehicle on the board on his side, carries the biggest threat to yourself and its destruction will neuter 1/3 of his force then, flareshields be dammed, that thing is getting scragged on turn 1!

locarno24 wrote:

They are still disturbingly good cannon fodder, though. As noted, I prefer Twisted Flesh for the other provenance - Rending makes them vaguely dangerous if they actually reach the enemy.

Didn't it give them also daemon rule, because 5+ invu save ain't bad. that combined to hordes zealot is good option to some too cheap cannon fodder.

Only to the force commander. They do get a 6+ Feel No Pain, but that's it.

Hardly Any of these are issues really.

1) In a game that is this filled with S: 6+ AP: 4 or better, 5 points is right on the mark, especially since lasguns vs. marines or tougher are not amazing. Remember that in 30k, MARINES are 15/10 points per model.

2) you can bring more Demolishers, Demolishers get bonus BSs, Demolishers can have commanders riding in them

3) Malcador's have limited traverse for their main gun, and can't be taken in squadrons

4) It's a good squad, but still iffy as they are really low on the "model count" factor.


The rules are fairly well balanced for what you will end up facing, so long as you don't pull the "typical" min-max move and, well... min-max. Speaking as an Auxillia player: it works, and it allows you to manage to hold your own against marines and ad mech. It's not broken unless you activley try to break it, and the same can be said for most 30k lists really.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Benito0 wrote:
Thx for answers everyone! Im a bit softened now, but not convinced.

So far i played 1 test game with a bit weakened roster, and i pretty much stomped Salamanders, here are our lists:
http://pastebin.com/RiYxCTNP
http://pastebin.com/c4BWSWhw

So changes are:

Lasrifle section size is halved, price still 100. Character, banner and vox are still there.

Dracosans are 4 hp and without demolishers.

Veletarii must pay for axes, but can choose other options if they want to (i brought volkites), households dont get prefered enemy.

We rolled mission 2 from book 2, i brought aegis so we agreed that i should defend. Tank commander chose pref enemy (inf), the WT was stealth in ruins.
I managed to immobilise Spartan with my medusa and rapiers and then blocked terminators with my dracosan (they didnt blow it up so they had to climb over it) and the rest of his army i just shot to death, at the end termies came but it was too late.

I will try a bit more, i know that 1 game isnt an indicator.

First: Wow, you managed to stomp a mech list with a largely anti-tank list? How DID you manage to pull that out of your hat? I mean, I too am amazed that you could kill 35 infantry and 6 tanks (4 of those being rhinos) It MUST be that auxilia are OP, it's the only option. I mean, especially since you brought a flyer when he had no anti-air as well. .

1)100 points for 10 men?!? Really? for 150 you can bring 10 marines who will, 9 times out of 10, DESTROY those 10 lasrifle guys.
2) Ehhh, the point of the Dracosan is to be durable, and you pay for that Demolisher in points, and a loss of transport space, it's not as bad as you're making it seem.
3) I wouldn't even go that far, options are: range specialty, or S: 5 AP: 2 that will always go last? And why drop preferred enemy? Because it gives them a decent chance at winning CC? Auxillia have 2 answers to stabby units: Household squads and Ogryns, and most of the time, these squads will still loose, why hit them?


Sorry if I'm laying it on thick, but I really think a) you're looking at this way to hard from a 40k view point, these balance issues aren't really there in practice, and b) you're "test game' was a best case scenario for your list, and a list that really seems to be more of a "40k brought to 30k" list.

More feedback, much appreciated! Even if i dont agree with it.

Played another game with different opponent, changed my list a bit (with the same penalties).

http://pastebin.com/qShqEhhC
http://pastebin.com/kSt8aixK
Termies with axes, Mor Deythan with combi-plasmas.

Book 1 mission 6, WT -1 to reserves, tank pref enemy, volkites on veletarii.
My Medusa immediately got immobilised on a double 1, so it shot at something other than rapiers only 1 time. Flamers and Veletarii failed to stop jetbikes (Veletarii did it spectacularly by failing ld8 with reroll and running off the table, in result bikes barely survived with 1 guy and praetor in 1 wound, 5 VP i remind you) so i had only my tank (which wiped Mor Deythan squads) and plane (which blew dreadnought that couldnt intercept it due to poor range), with the problem that my opponent rolled very poorly in assault phase and couldnt wipe my squads in 1 turn so i couldnt drop my bombs, which may or may not have resulted in a tie. Close game, but i think i would have likely won without penalties (which is of course why i use them).

Benito0 wrote:
More feedback, much appreciated! Even if i dont agree with it.

Played another game with different opponent, changed my list a bit (with the same penalties).

http://pastebin.com/qShqEhhC
http://pastebin.com/kSt8aixK
Termies with axes, Mor Deythan with combi-plasmas.

Book 1 mission 6, WT -1 to reserves, tank pref enemy, volkites on veletarii.
My Medusa immediately got immobilised on a double 1, so it shot at something other than rapiers only 1 time. Flamers and Veletarii failed to stop jetbikes (Veletarii did it spectacularly by failing ld8 with reroll and running off the table, in result bikes barely survived with 1 guy and praetor in 1 wound, 5 VP i remind you) so i had only my tank (which wiped Mor Deythan squads) and plane (which blew dreadnought that couldnt intercept it due to poor range), with the problem that my opponent rolled very poorly in assault phase and couldnt wipe my squads in 1 turn so i couldnt drop my bombs, which may or may not have resulted in a tie. Close game, but i think i would have likely won without penalties (which is of course why i use them).

I still think this game has a lot of the same issues as the other one, and I may have spotted the issue. Does your local meta have a lot of these "small model" count lists? That may be why you think it's fine that your 10 guardsmen cost the same as 10 marines (if not 50 points less). In 30k, you're almost always gonna beat 20 infantry, some vehicles, and some artillery if you have more infantry models. It's one of the major weaknesses of "pride of the legion" or bringing mech. marine lists: You don't have the models. Again, you have quite a few flyers, and he has little to no anti air.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Tamwulf wrote:
Are you saying the list is inconsistent with itself, or when compared to a 40K list? 30K is not a good fit for playing against 40K. For one, 30K really doesn't come into its own until 2,500-3,000 points. A 40K army at that level is very different then what you see at say, 1850 points. Below 2,500 points, a 30K army can be either very, very broken (A Space Marine Legion player playing a Warhound Titan at 1,500 points sucks) or at a big disadvantage against a 40K army.

space marine legion players cannot do that, being that for everyone ALL lords of war have a 2,000 point minium, and can only be MAX 25% of the list unless you use a specific force org that is generally crap.

 Brennonjw wrote:

I still think this game has a lot of the same issues as the other one, and I may have spotted the issue. Does your local meta have a lot of these "small model" count lists? That may be why you think it's fine that your 10 guardsmen cost the same as 10 marines (if not 50 points less). In 30k, you're almost always gonna beat 20 infantry, some vehicles, and some artillery if you have more infantry models. It's one of the major weaknesses of "pride of the legion" or bringing mech. marine lists: You don't have the models. Again, you have quite a few flyers, and he has little to no anti air.

Pride of the legion is quite popular indeed, because it lets you field bigger army with less models and cheaper price.

Benito0 wrote:

 Brennonjw wrote:

I still think this game has a lot of the same issues as the other one, and I may have spotted the issue. Does your local meta have a lot of these "small model" count lists? That may be why you think it's fine that your 10 guardsmen cost the same as 10 marines (if not 50 points less). In 30k, you're almost always gonna beat 20 infantry, some vehicles, and some artillery if you have more infantry models. It's one of the major weaknesses of "pride of the legion" or bringing mech. marine lists: You don't have the models. Again, you have quite a few flyers, and he has little to no anti air.

Pride of the legion is quite popular indeed, because it lets you field bigger army with less models and cheaper price.

THATS why auxilia seem a bit OP to you then . Their numbers basically hard counter small, elite armies (as you have been seeing). Locally, we have a few PotL lists, but my local meta is more "build fluffy" then "build to win." I personally run 2-3 20-man squads with apothecaries along side the rest of whatever I'm bringing. I think if you were to go against someone who brought more numbers, the games would go a bit differently.