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So, I have been using Kaya 1 for a little while since playing Circle, and she's been really fun. I love sending out ridiculously accurate and powerful Stalkers due to Primal and Pack Hunter to dump truck someone's teeth in, then teleport them back with Dimentional Door, it's been bloody good. But, I have been thinking about changing around my Warlock, and am really debating between three choices for all different reasons. I am thinking of moving to Kaya 2, I have enjoyed running double stalker so far, so I think those two, a Gorax and Laris would make for a good pack of beasts, but I am wanting to try something a little different than a beast pack. So, to counter this, I was thinking of picking up either version of Krueger, Prime for the wonderful infantry clearing shenanigans, and Epic for the amazing scenario play possibilities, just to change the kinds of lists I am playing. But, I am open to recommendations on a new Warlock, so, suggestions? Opinions on these three?

The other thing I was considering was getting some Tharn units, mostly the Blood Trackers, Wolf Riders, and the Blood Pack, but am having some trouble deciding which one I will use, and I think changing the warlock out will help this choice, but am strongly leaning to the Wolf Riders, because I feel I could really get some use out of some light cavalry to ride around and hit people, or the Blood Pack, they seem somewhat tough and with assault and battery, so they can shoot and wither haul themselves away a bit, or charge in to whoop some hide, so, again, thoughts?

eKaya can be fun. I think she is easier to use than pKaya, but not as fun to play. Shadow Pack lets her stealth her entire battlegroup and can be very skewy (probably too skewy) against things that need to shoot but can't handle stealth.

pKreuger can be a lot of fun just because he hates one-wound infantry so much. If your opponent has a lot of it then it may be a very memorable (albeit one-sided) game. I don't think he does a lot other than murder droves of flimsy infantry, though.

eKreuger is one of the archetypal overpowered Circle warlocks. He can be fun to play, and has a powerful toolkit that can help you win on scenario especially, but I'm not sure he is very fun to play against.

A warlock I really like is eMorvahna. She is another of the archetypal overpowered Circle warlocks, but she is a lot of fun to play. In particular, she has a rule that allows her to take d3 damage to let a friendly faction model in her control area reroll an attack or damage roll, which means you can continuously be making decisions about how to use it through your whole turn. She also has the best model of any warlock in the faction. Also, because she is overpowered you'll get to win a bunch! Isn't that nice?

On the units. The Bloodtrackers are a staple unit of the faction and very good. The hardest thing with them is that they need to use Prey effectively to really shine, and that can be tough in my experience. They also want their UA, Nuala. I think you are unlikely to regret them.

The wolf riders are an interesting unit. I am not sure you'll manage to get 10 points out of them, but they are cool and fun to use. What makes them survivable is their very high native defense. If your opponent has a way of dealing with that, they may be in trouble. They are ridiculously fast, though, and can use light cav to try and skirmish. I like them.

The blood pack are, well, bad. They are expensive and their power in melee is poor. Their ranged weapon is good, but they don't have any ability to ignore terrain, so they're thwarted by any kind of defensive tech unless they can get a heart token - which they can only get in melee. They have eight boxes each, but because their armour is only 14, a damage roll of 22 will kill them outright, and any model of power 12 or better (almost every infantry model in the game) will do that on average dice on a charge attack. Treewalker is interesting, but it is tough to use unless the terrain on the table is just right. I have never seen them work well in a game. They are close enough to make the dream tantalising, but don't get them unless you accept what you're getting into chasing that dream.

I hope some of that helps!

Epic Kruger is fun, usual list will have Druids a gallows megalith seems to be pretty popular with him, he's good as can put out 2/3 lightning storms a turn which can cause problems for some heavy infantry lists. He's my cryx drop cause of that. His feat is good but if you play death clock some people will take there time over it which can hamper you a fair bit

HiveFleetPlastic wrote:eKaya can be fun. I think she is easier to use than pKaya, but not as fun to play. Shadow Pack lets her stealth her entire battlegroup and can be very skewy (probably too skewy) against things that need to shoot but can't handle stealth.
I see, soulds like a lot of fun honestly, super stealth everywhere is always good, and pretty scary. Might help a bit since my friends tent to target my Gorax a lot of the time, so that will keep him safe. Also, there is almost nothing called too skewy unless you are on the receiving end of it

pKreuger can be a lot of fun just because he hates one-wound infantry so much. If your opponent has a lot of it then it may be a very memorable (albeit one-sided) game. I don't think he does a lot other than murder droves of flimsy infantry, though.
Yeah, infantry clearing sounds like some fun to be had, but it might get a little dull, since while slaughter is always good, I like doing a little more than endless slaughter sometimes

eKreuger is one of the archetypal overpowered Circle warlocks. He can be fun to play, and has a powerful toolkit that can help you win on scenario especially, but I'm not sure he is very fun to play against.
Winning is always fun, but I tend to play more friendly games, but he will be something to look into for any tournaments I may enter, so that's always something to keep in mind

A warlock I really like is eMorvahna. She is another of the archetypal overpowered Circle warlocks, but she is a lot of fun to play. In particular, she has a rule that allows her to take d3 damage to let a friendly faction model in her control area reroll an attack or damage roll, which means you can continuously be making decisions about how to use it through your whole turn. She also has the best model of any warlock in the faction. Also, because she is overpowered you'll get to win a bunch! Isn't that nice?
She does have a great model, I've seen her in person a couple of times, but have never played against her. I like the life trader idea she has going on, and I know her feat is insane at smaller point levels, but she seems interesting.

On the units. The Bloodtrackers are a staple unit of the faction and very good. The hardest thing with them is that they need to use Prey effectively to really shine, and that can be tough in my experience. They also want their UA, Nuala. I think you are unlikely to regret them.
I see. I do like how they look, and will take some time to figure out what to use prey on, but they seem like they would be a cool unit, I think they'll be at the top for new units to get

The wolf riders are an interesting unit. I am not sure you'll manage to get 10 points out of them, but they are cool and fun to use. What makes them survivable is their very high native defense. If your opponent has a way of dealing with that, they may be in trouble. They are ridiculously fast, though, and can use light cav to try and skirmish. I like them.
They seem pretty awesome, but not entierly sure about them right now, with them being 10 points, but I will keep them in mind.They also look really cool IMO.

The blood pack are, well, bad. They are expensive and their power in melee is poor. Their ranged weapon is good, but they don't have any ability to ignore terrain, so they're thwarted by any kind of defensive tech unless they can get a heart token - which they can only get in melee. They have eight boxes each, but because their armour is only 14, a damage roll of 22 will kill them outright, and any model of power 12 or better (almost every infantry model in the game) will do that on average dice on a charge attack. Treewalker is interesting, but it is tough to use unless the terrain on the table is just right. I have never seen them work well in a game. They are close enough to make the dream tantalising, but don't get them unless you accept what you're getting into chasing that dream.
That's unfortunate, but oh well, such things do happen I suppose. Would you recommend the other medium based Tharn units? Like the Ravagers possibly, since they are a dedicated melee unit?
I hope some of that helps!

Thanks, that helped a lot! I have plenty of things to think on

pwnsummer wrote:Epic Kruger is fun, usual list will have Druids a gallows megalith seems to be pretty popular with him, he's good as can put out 2/3 lightning storms a turn which can cause problems for some heavy infantry lists. He's my cryx drop cause of that. His feat is good but if you play death clock some people will take there time over it which can hamper you a fair bit

I see, well, I don't play Dethklok currently, but I might start trying to learn it at the very least, it seems interesting, but I can see how it would hamper the game some

There's not much doubt Ravagers are better than the Blood Pack, but they are extremely similar in a lot of ways, so they share many of the same problems. They still die to a stiff breeze and rely on forests to get any real kind of survivability against melee attacks. On the plus side, they are more powerful, especially on the charge, and they have Reach, which is especially cool with Heart Eater. They still die in droves, but now and then one will make it to melee and get to live the dream, scything through multiple enemies using corpse tokens.

The main place I have seen them used is with Cassius & Wyrmwood, because Treewalker synergises powerfully with their feat.

If you are really interested in the male tharn, you might find eKaya's second theme force, "Soothe the Savage Beast," interesting. In exchange for limiting yourself to only Tharn for the most part, you get a few benefits, but a neat one is the models with Heart Eater start with a corpse token.

Morv2 can tooootally get blood pack to work. Without a doubt. Admittedly I'm coming from a slightly odd position with some of my lists, but I totally rate those guys.

Is there any problem eMorvahna can't solve??

Blood Pack are actually superior to Ravagers as they can do work before getting into melee, unlike Ravagers who usually get shot down. Blood Pack can hide in forests.

Plus on eMorv feat they can still use Assault and Battery to shoot.

Yea, I gotta disagree a bit with Hive Fleet Plastic's recommendations.

Wolf Riders: Almost never worth the points, and the price point in $ makes them a disappointing unit to own. I love the models, but they just don't work right.

Blood Pack are good, better than Ravagers most of the time if you are just getting a random unit. Random units are almost never a good idea though. Still, they are brutal with eMorv, not because she fixes them, but because they make her feat more powerful by being placed behind targets then being able to shoot with that bonus when using Assault and Battery. No other model gets to attack like on her feat except for warwolves, and those need to be triggered off Reeves, which is why you also see those poor bastards actually used with eMorv.
Blood Pack also fix into eKaya's second theme force, which gives them a corpse token at the start of the game. That is subtly awesome, as boosted Pow 13 shots can hurt a ton of stuff.

Now, I like Ravagers thematically, but on the table they are not so hot. Our casters just don't generally do a lot for infantry.

I don't know that eKreuger is the source of negative play experiences. He has a high skill ceiling (very good if you really know him) but he isn't straight up over powering if you are not clever with his tricks. eMorvahna tends to get more complaints in my experience, as being able to reroll all the time while prancing about all over on a goat is really strong. Fixing dice and making them behave is super good, and unlike eKrueger is super good in obvious to get good at and piss off your opponent ways. Until you figure out how to beat her (RFP all over) she feels really cheaty.

Otherwise, I mostly agree with his points.

Blood Trackers are a staple, with or without Nuala the UA. When reaching for "Just some infantry", those are pretty much never a bad pick.

pKrueger is a good warlock, although arguably a little underpowered in the current meta. He can make a really good beast heavy list on account of killing single wound infantry so well. I usually run pKrugs, Blood Weavers, Stones, and a ton of heavy hitting beasts, and that list will deal with anything but the swarmiest of infantry armies. He is a fun caster, even if his skill set isn't tuned to the current meta of 8 wound high Arm infantry and colossals, and honestly I like a beast heavy pKrugs list into colossal lists pretty well.

In a nutshell, most of our casters like a fair few beasts and a unit or two only. eMorv likes lots of good infantry and can get away with just a Stalker and Gorax. pMorv wants lots of infantry too, but she is awkward to play; an opponent without remove from play (RFP) effects or a good way of removing upkeeps will just hate the game forever as they kill Blood Trackers 40 times and they just keep coming. On the other hand, an opponent with RFP/Purification will pretty much wreck pMorv. I love her, but games are swingy.