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Hi all,
I'm am close to selling my bike army on ebay to pay for this list, but, before I do anything too hastily, what are your thoughts on it


Shadowstrike Killteam

5 Vanguard, 5x2 lightning claws 160
5 Vanguard, TH/SS, PF/SS, PF 180
10 Vanguard, TH/SS, 4 PF/SS, 5MBs, 3 PW 390 (Combat squad into the TH and PF squad and a MB/PW squad.)
2 x 5 scouts, camo cloaks, 130
10 scouts, camo cloaks 130

Skyhammer
(Ultramarine chapter tactics)

10 Devastators, 4 grav cannon, drop pod, 315
10 Devastators, 4 multi-melta, drop pod, 215
5 Assault marines, jump packs, 2 flamers 95
5 Assault marine, jump packs, 2 flamers, 95

Inquisitorial Detachment

Inquisitor, 3 servo skulls 34
Inquisitor, 2 servo skulls 31
Henchmen warband, 3 servitors, 3 plasma cannon, 1 crusader 75

Total: 1850

Firstly, is it legal? I'm quite sure that it is: 2 formations and a inquisitorial detachment is ok, right?

Next, is it effective?
- I think my warlord would be one of the inquisitors, hidden in the 10-man scout squad, and tucked away in some ruins. Could he be character sniped because their cover saves are different? If I'm not wrong, in 7th the wounds go to the closest model.

- Will the scouts and inquisitors survive turn 1 as they are going to be my only models on the board?

- Zero AA, but, hopefully, with good cover saves and the jump pack-equipped units in combat, I should be safe enough. Or not?

- Interceptor will mess up.

- No psychic defense. Deathstars will be hard to take out. A Culexus in a drop pod would be lovely, but where would the point's come from? Deathstars could simply be avoided as, with 6 servo skulls, I should be able to deep strike any where I want and charge the other units in my opponent's army leaving the deathstar alone.

- No objective secured!

- Hordes could tie my units up in close combat but just have to be careful with my assaults.

- Will probably give up first blood quite easily unless I can hide my scouts behind LoS blocking terrain or get good cover save rolls.

-Never used servo skulls before. Are five a wasteful use of points?

But then, every army has its weaknesses!

Would be great to get some C&C

Would love some feedback on this list. Anyone??

Been thinking it over in my head and I think that, although the beta strike from this list could be potentially massive, there is no AA OR psychic defence.

To counter this I was thinking about dropping the skyhammer to add a Stormwing formation, with Iron Hands CC, a Culexus and beef up one of the Vanguard units. No servo skulls as I am trying to keep to the ITC 3 source requirement. This could be a massive blow becasue, if i have to hide the scouts from LOS or if the terrain is not advantageous, the Vangurads may never see combat.


Shadowstike kill team
5 VG, 5x2 Lightning claws
10 VG, 2x TH/SS, 2x PF/SS, 4 PF
10 VG, TH/SS, 4xPF/SS, 5 MB, 4 PW

2x10 scouts, camo cloaks
5 scouts, camo colaks


Stormwing formation
Stormraven
2x Stormtalon, typhoon missile launcher

Assassin detachment
Culexus (Rides in the Stormraven)

I feel that this list is a little bit more of an all-comers list but its punching power is considerably weaker despite having a strong answer to flyers and psychic deathstars

Thoughts?

The shadows trike kill team doesn't have to be Raven Guard if you don't want it to be. Personally, White Scars for hit and run or Ultramarines to reroll ones to hit would be better than hammer of wrath attacks and rerolling the charge.

I would also recommend putting locator beacons on the skyhammer pods. Nobody is really going to shoot the pods, since there is thirty marines in their face. Accurate deep striking without the scouts finicky positioning.

Crazy terran,
I think that locator beacons are not going to be as effective as servo skulls as the drop pods would have to come in turn one for the Vanguard Vets and assault squads to use them.

I take it that you prefer the first list??

What you said about the chapter tactics is very interesting. The 12'' charge range for raven guard would be amazing but I would consider taking white scars for hit and run.

Not to be rude, but how do you know that the shadow stike formation can be taken with any chapter tactics? I rechecked the book and it says that
' the following formations can be taken for any army in Codex: Space Marines'. Is this the reason?

Yes. There's nothing within the formation restricting it, and earlier in the book it even says that any of the Formations can be used. (Except for the mega formation Talon Strike Force, of course...)

Yeah, it does say

'The following secion describes forces used by the Raven Guard and their bretren in other chapters that focus on swift precision strikes. The Talon strike force is unique to the Raven Gurad, buy the formations on the following pages can be used by any army chosen from Codex:Space Marines'

but does that mean as an allied Raven Guard formation or as a formation with no restrictions on chapter tactics like the one in the SM codex?

It's not very clear, but I do think that I agree with you.

Be nice to hear other people's opinion on the matter.

I don't see it listed... but is this one of those formations that needs jumppacks?

It's absolutely clear. The Formation exists for Faction: Space Marines. There is no Restriction about it being for a specific Chapter Tactic. Therefore there is no restriction on what Chapter Tactic can take the Formation.

Look at the Restrictions for a Talon Strike Force. It says "All units in the Detachment must be drawn from the Raven Guard." Now look at the Restrictions for the Shadowstrike Killteam. There is no matching Restriction. For further proof, look at the Shadow Force, which is another Formation in Kauyon. Captain Sicarius, Kor'sarro Khan, Vulkan He'stan, Pedro Kantor and High Marshal Helbrecht are all units that CAN NOT be taken in a Raven Guard army, but they are listed as replacement options for the Captain. If the Formations were Raven Guard only, they wouldn't be there.

And yes poolatka, this one requires Jump Packs.

Thanks for all the feedback everyone. What do you think about the effectiveness of the army? Is it competitive?

Like you said interceptor will make you a sad panda...

From my perspective(tau and necrons are my primary armies) it's not an awful list but also not top tier competitive as interceptor or any amount of psykic powers will make it difficult for you.

Has anyone seen the recent article on Frontline Gaming about a player who took a similar list to this to an ITC and did very well. ( https://www.frontlinegaming.org/2016/03/17/40k-list-tech-a-viable-competitive-ravenguard-list/ )

Similar but he has all the benefits of the talon strike force, especially the first turn assault; however, i feel like the demi-company tax reduces the punching power of the assault squads

Hey glad to see somebody who loves assault marines as much as i do. I run a pinion company with a shadowstrike team and a raptorwing and it seems decent. I tend to get alot of points early in the game and then weather the storm once my vanguard goes down. The deepstrike assault army is very fun to play but with your list i feel you may be in trouble if things go south fast. You dont really have alot of staying power once your jumppack marines go down, and against a hardcounter like tau it can be devastating. I think you should cut some of the gear on the vanguard. That many fists mean whatever you assault is probably dead, and then your guys are dead to shooting next turn. I run 3 5 man squads with 2 bolt/chainsword guys ( modeled with twin claws cause they looks awesome) 1 pa/ss 1 ss/th and sg with lc/ss. I then back this up with a pinion with 8 plasma devs that ignore cover, 2 5 man tacs with plasma cannons that have a scout squad spotting for either one, and a outflanking grav cannon combi grav squad that ignores cover in a rhino. With just one fist gone all your scouts gain sniper rifles which i think if your trying to keep them hidden in ruins is a solid option. Overall i really like the list, and have been considering collecting a skyhammer just to try something like this. Also with points saved on weapons from the vanguard you could increase your assault marine team sizes

X

Made a few changes. I've toned down the wargear on two of the VG squads. I still want to keep one of the squads with full pf or th and ss incase I have to take out a death star or a hard CC unit.

Added MBs to the assault squads and swapped out a scout squad to make one a ten man squad.

Swapped another scout squad for another unit of henchmen to give me 6 plasma cannons.

And finally, gave the two remaining scouts squads sniper rifles.

Shadowstrike Killteam

5 Vanguard, 3x2 lightning claws 140
5 Vanguard, TH/SS, PF/SS 165
10 Vanguard, TH/SS, 4 PF/SS, 5MBs, 3 PW 390 (Combat squad into the TH and PF squad and a MB/PW squad.)
5 scouts, camo cloaks, sniper 70
5 scouts, camo cloaks, sniper 70

Skyhammer
(Ultramarine chapter tactics)

10 Devastators, 4 grav cannon, drop pod, 315
10 Devastators, 4 multi-melta, drop pod, 215
10 Assault marines, jump packs, MB 175
5 Assault marine, jump packs, MB 90

Inquisitorial Detachment

Inquisitor, 3 servo skulls 34
Inquisitor, 2 servo skulls 31
Henchmen warband, 3 servitors, 3 plasma cannon, 3Acolyte 72
Henchmen warband, 3 servitors, 3 plasma cannon, 3Acolyte 72

Total: 1850


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also, I'm thinking White Scars chapter tactics for the Shadowstrike kill team. Any thoughts on that??

Or, I could drop both the henchmen squads and use the points to make the other assault squad 10 men strong and give each unit a powerfist. If I dropped 1 melts bomb from the VG squad, I could add another servo skull and upgrade one of the sergeants to a veteran. However, I would lose the only obsec units I have and it could make placing the scouts and inquisitors more difficult.

Final list.

I was worried about giving away first blood/ and or warlord so changed my henchmen squad to make it more resilient. Gutted to lose the plasma cannons, but I think overall the list is stronger got it. One of the inquisitors will be warlord and they will all firm one unit. This means that I can accept challenges with the other inquisitor and can look out sir with a 2+ save. 2psycannons with psybolt ammo also provide a good amount of fire and can be used on the move or when assaulting. With wil fen becoming more popular this could be a great unit as it doubles them out and ignores their armour save. In the assault the unit will also be very strong with potentially 8 s6 ap2 attacks as well as the crusaders power weapons.


5 Vanguard, 3x2 lightning claws 140
5 Vanguard, TH/SS, PF/SS 165
10 Vanguard, TH/SS, 4 PF/SS, 5MBs, 3 PW 390 (Combat squad into the TH and PF squad and a MB/PW squad.)
5 scouts, camo cloaks, sniper 70
5 scouts, camo cloaks, sniper 70

Skyhammer
(Ultramarine chapter tactics)

10 Devastators, 4 grav cannon, drop pod, 315
10 Devastators, 4 multi-melta, drop pod, 215
10 Assault marines, jump packs 170
5 Assault marine, jump packs 85

Inquisitorial Detachment

Inquisitor, 3 servo skulls, terminator armour, demon hammer, psycannon, psybolt ammo 94
Inquisitor, 3 servo skulls, terminator armour, demon hammer, psycannon, psybolt ammo 94
3 acolyte, 2crusader 42

Total: 1850