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Crimson Slaughter 1005 points

Chaos Lord (215pts)
Bike, Blight grenades, Daemonheart, Lightning Claws, Mark of Nurgle, Power Fist, Sigil of corruption, The Slaughterer’s Horns

Sorcerer (170pts)
2x Additional Mastery Level, Aura of dark glory, Bike, Power Armour, The Balestar of Mannon


Chaos Cultists (50pts)
9x autopistol loadout, 9x Cultists in unit
Cultist Champion
Auto Pistol

Chaos Cultists (50pts)
9x autopistol loadout, 9x Cultists in unit
Cultist Champion
Auto Pistol


Chaos Spawn (180pts)
Mark of Nurgle, 5x Spawn

Heldrake (170pts)
Baleflamer
Heldrake (170pts)
Baleflamer

Black Legion 845 points

Sorcerer (170pts)
2x Additional Mastery Level, Aura of dark glory, Bike, Melta bombs, Power Armour, Spell familiar, Veterans of the Long War
Sorcerer (165pts)
2x Additional Mastery Level, Aura of dark glory, Bike, Power Armour, Spell familiar, Veterans of the Long War


Chosen (165pts)
4x Chosen, 2x Replace boltgun w/ Meltagun, Veterans of the Long War
Veterans of the Long War
Chaos Rhino
Combi-bolter, Searchlight, Smoke launchers
Repair, Transport Capacity: Rhino
Chosen Champion
Bolt Pistol, Close Combat Weapon
Champion of Chaos
Combi-melta


Chosen (165pts)
4x Chosen, 2x Replace boltgun w/ Meltagun, Veterans of the Long War
Veterans of the Long War
Chaos Rhino
Combi-bolter, Searchlight, Smoke launchers
Repair, Transport Capacity: Rhino
Chosen Champion
Bolt Pistol, Close Combat Weapon
Champion of Chaos
Combi-melta


Chaos Spawn (180pts)
Mark of Nurgle, 5x Spawn


Is this just about as good as it gets for the poor CSM?

thoughts?

thanks.

I like it, but why take chosen if you're only buying 2 meltaguns for the squads? The point of chosen is to take 4-5 in the squad.

I think it would be better if you put the cultists in your second legion detachment and didn't make it Black Legion, then put 2x squads of plague marines in your primary instead of the chosen, and gave them the same loadout. It should only run about 15 points more per squad, and you'll save some points by not needing to buy VotLW for your 2 sorcerers in the second detachment.

I'd run both detachments as Crimson Slaughter so you get the free "fear" buff for all the units. It's funny when cultists make some guardsmen fail a fear test.

drop the chosen

Less chosen more maulerfiends.

Belakor is a must have.

I'd drop the Lord and just keep the lvl 3 sorcerers.

Daemon allies could bring a bunch of things to the table (hound star, screamer star, invisible D-Thirster) and so could taking Daemonkin.

These days you have to take the space marine battle-brother approach and think of chaos as CSM+KDK+Daemons.

And take void shields or a skyshield landing pad.

Chaos Knight might not hurt either.

Don't forget Fireraptor gunships or Sicaran tanks from FW.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also Fist of Khorne formation (Assault klaw + 20 berzerkers that can DS+assault turn 1) seems to be getting more play.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Even renegades (Vraks) can bring things to the table though I don't have much knowledge about them.

Chaos Space Marines have many great options if you are willing to use IA13 and Crimson Slaughter supplements.

 Intercessor wrote:
Chaos Space Marines have many great options if you are willing to use IA13 and Crimson Slaughter supplements.

This. Rapiers, sicarans, etc -- all very good. Friend runs a list sort of like what you have here but trades the chosen and one of the deathstars for conversion beamer rapiers and a pair of sicarans. Its about the best CSM gets without allies or going KDK.

For a pure non-FW CSM list its pretty good, but also probably better with some more pressure units like maulerfiends and/or the power of belakor to protect your deathstar more reliably.

We don't use any FW at events near me. I have Belakor but I really don't like him in this list. I play him when I make it csm/daemons and he does much better when he's not the only fmc. The Lord usually is a total house and does a ton of dmg. I have played it with 4 sorcerers before too. It just didn't hit hard enough without him.

I could swap the chosen to PM and I know they are tough but the extra melta shot seemed better.

By switching your troops around, sticking to the CS supplement and replacing votlw chosen with regular plague marines* I got to this:

Crimson Slaughter 1275 points

Chaos Lord (215pts)
Bike, Blight grenades, Daemonheart, Lightning Claws, Mark of Nurgle, Power Fist, Sigil of corruption, The Slaughterer’s Horns

Sorcerer (170pts)
2x Additional Mastery Level, Aura of dark glory, Bike, Power Armour, The Balestar of Mannon


plague marines (185pts)
4x plague marines 2x Replace boltgun w/ Meltagun,
Chaos Rhino
Combi-bolter, Searchlight, Smoke launchers
Repair, Transport Capacity: Rhino
Chosen Champion
Bolt Pistol, plague knife
Champion of Chaos
Combi-melta

plague marines (185pts)
4x plague marines 2x Replace boltgun w/ Meltagun,
Chaos Rhino
Combi-bolter, Searchlight, Smoke launchers
Repair, Transport Capacity: Rhino
Chosen Champion
Bolt Pistol, plague knife
Champion of Chaos
Combi-melta



Chaos Spawn (180pts)
Mark of Nurgle, 5x Spawn

Heldrake (170pts)
Baleflamer
Heldrake (170pts)
Baleflamer

Crimson Slaughter 605 points

Sorcerer (165pts)
2x Additional Mastery Level, Aura of dark glory, Bike, Melta bombs, Power Armour, Spell familiar,

Sorcerer (160pts)
2x Additional Mastery Level, Aura of dark glory, Bike, Power Armour, Spell familiar,


Chaos Cultists (50pts)
9x autopistol loadout, 9x Cultists in unit
Cultist Champion
Auto Pistol

Chaos Cultists (50pts)
9x autopistol loadout, 9x Cultists in unit
Cultist Champion
Auto Pistol


Chaos Spawn (180pts)
Mark of Nurgle, 5x Spawn

Which comes to 1880. *note plague marines can take double specials in 5 man squads too**

That puts you 30 points over, which basically means drop a spawn, give someone a melta bomb and a cultist champion a shot gun.** Note that both detachments are now crimson slaughter, meaning all your squads are fear causing and no one is a votlw anymore.

** I actually think one of the advantages in chosen is the way you used them; as the cheapest double special in a rhino troop tax. As you've with me implementing the 'forum standard' change suggestions you have to make some concessions in the list to swap those chosen for plague marines, even though you already had a Nurgle Lord. A further concession is you'll have to choose your warlord from one of those first detachment characters (in order to make the plague marines troop choices in that detachment). Biker lords tend to get thrown into harm's way, the plague marine champions only have a single wound and the balestar sorcerer isn't exactly ideal either.