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Hi all quick question

When generating warp charge for Grey knights do all units generate warp charges? Or is it just the pysker like a librarian or is it one warp charge per psychic unit?

Also when generating powers can you go from as many power types as possible or are you limited to a certain number?

Every unit with the Psyker or Brotherhood of Psykers special rule generates a number of warp charges equal to their Mastery Level. Units like Strike Squads are Brotherhood of Psykers, Mastery Lvl 1, so they generate 1 warp charge. Librarians can be upgraded to level 3, so they would generate 3 warp charges if upgraded.

Thanks for the response

It could get tricky when the Librarian is joined to a unit, since he is considered part of that unit for all rules purposes. However it is generally accepted that Master Level, number of powers and Warp charge generated are on a Psyker to Psyker bases, no matter who is joined to who.

___Let's take a ML3 Librarian joined to a 5-man Terminator unit as an example___

--The Termies are collectively ML1 and have 3 set powers. They generate 1 WC and due to being ML1 can only attempt to case 1 power per turn.
--The Libby rolls his 3 powers (for simplicity lets say they are all from the same Discipline). He has 5 powers (3 rolls + Primaris + Force). He generate 3 WC and can attempt to cast 3 powers.

Together they generate 4 WC and can attempt to cast 4 powers. Although they count as separate Psykers, they still count as the same unit. This means that if the Termies attempt to cast Force and fail, the Libby counts as attempting Force and cannot try to recast it.

The above is due to the BRB using the term "Psyker" in some cases, but "unit" in others. And as we know, IC's count as part of their "unit" for all purposes.

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 Galef wrote:
It could get tricky when the Librarian is joined to a unit, since he is considered part of that unit for all rules purposes. However it is generally accepted that Master Level, number of powers and Warp charge generated are on a Psyker to Psyker bases, no matter who is joined to who.

___Let's take a ML3 Librarian joined to a 5-man Terminator unit as an example___

--The Termies are collectively ML1 and have 3 set powers. They generate 1 WC and due to being ML1 can only attempt to case 1 power per turn.
--The Libby rolls his 3 powers (for simplicity lets say they are all from the same Discipline). He has 5 powers (3 rolls + Primaris + Force). He generate 3 WC and can attempt to cast 3 powers.

Together they generate 4 WC and can attempt to cast 4 powers. Although they count as separate Psykers, they still count as the same unit. This means that if the Termies attempt to cast Force and fail, the Libby counts as attempting Force and cannot try to recast it.

The above is due to the BRB using the term "Psyker" in some cases, but "unit" in others. And as we know, IC's count as part of their "unit" for all purposes.

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Not to open another whole can of worms with this, but be advised this is kinda HIWPI (with a caveat explained below) and generally accepted. The Psychic Phase has several known issues when trying to follow RAW, especially with Psyker ICs attached to BoP units. If you want to wade waist-deep in the issue, there are several multi-page threads in YMDC but Galef has one of the best summaries of it here.

. . . Except:
In 7th Edition there is no restriction on the number of powers a unit can attempt to cast in a turn, at least not based on their Mastery Level. A unit of Terminators (ML1) can attempt all three of their known powers in the same turn (up to once for each power) as long as they have enough Warp Dice to make the attempt.

In my gaming group (over 50 people) and in every tourney I have played in (across different U.S. states), the general consensus is to refer to one of the very first sentences in the Psychic Phase section. I am not sure the page #, but it is the first page of the section.

Paraphasing (don't have my BRB right now) it says "The number of powers a Psyker can use depends on their Mastery Level". I have never been able to see how this can be interpreted in any other way than, ML2 = 2 powers can be attempted, even if you "know" 4 powers, you are only ML2. I.e. the "number" depend on ML. 2=2, 3=3, etc.

However there seems to be enough players that see it differently that it is important to discuss it pregame.


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 Galef wrote:
In my gaming group (over 50 people) and in every tourney I have played in (across different U.S. states), the general consensus is to refer to one of the very first sentences in the Psychic Phase section. I am not sure the page #, but it is the first page of the section.

Paraphasing (don't have my BRB right now) it says "The number of powers a Psyker can use depends on their Mastery Level". I have never been able to see how this can be interpreted in any other way than, ML2 = 2 powers can be attempted, even if you "know" 4 powers, you are only ML2. I.e. the "number" depend on ML. 2=2, 3=3, etc.

However there seems to be enough players that see it differently that it is important to discuss it pregame.


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Probably because the BRB tells us that you can keep casting from the same unit until you either run out of powers or run out of Warp Charges. That removes any hard limits based on Mastery Level, setting the real limit on powers known versus dice thrown.

SJ

 Galef wrote:
In my gaming group (over 50 people) and in every tourney I have played in (across different U.S. states), the general consensus is to refer to one of the very first sentences in the Psychic Phase section. I am not sure the page #, but it is the first page of the section.

Paraphasing (don't have my BRB right now) it says "The number of powers a Psyker can use depends on their Mastery Level". I have never been able to see how this can be interpreted in any other way than, ML2 = 2 powers can be attempted, even if you "know" 4 powers, you are only ML2. I.e. the "number" depend on ML. 2=2, 3=3, etc.

However there seems to be enough players that see it differently that it is important to discuss it pregame.


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Just a few examples of the kind of arguments this issue can raise:
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/659578.page#8042556
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/658118.page

Lots of folks (myself included) take that phrase "The number of powers a Psyker can use depends on their Mastery Level" as a copy+paste error from previous editions when ML did equal the number of powers you can cast [but this was in an era when Librarians could pay points costs to choose their powers and only had to pass a Ld test to cast them].

However, the current BRB goes on for several pages telling you how the powers are generated and manifested. Nowhere does it say anything like a mastery level 1 psyker can only cast one power per turn.

"If, after attempting to manifest a psychic power, you still have Warp Charge points left, you can attempt to manifest another psychic power with the same unit, or select another of your Psyker units and attempt to manifest a power the new unit knows. Assuming you have enough Warp Charge points, you can alternate back and forth between the same Psyker units in this way, but no unit can attempt to manifest the same psychic power more than once per Psychic phase.

Games Workshop Ltd. Warhammer 40,000 (Kindle Locations 5885-5888). "
*emphasis mine

But Galef is right, there certainly is enough contention to make sure you discuss it before rolling.

I am a "when in doubt" kind of player. Meaning that if there is an issue with a rule, I always assume the outcome that is the least permissive. This is, of course, HIWPI

I play Eldar, Daemons and some Grey Kngihts, so I rarely have a game without Psychic powers. To avoid any disagreements, I personally never attempt more powers than my ML (I rarely have enough WC to do this anyway).

I simply state to my opponent that because the "number of powers" statement comes early in the section, all other statements assume this. So later when it says "Assuming Warp charge, blah, blah..." it is talking about alternating between Psykers, but doesn't give explicit permission to cast more powers than your ML. It just says you can go back and forth between Psykers, which is in direct contrast to how moving, shooting and assaulting units works.

You are probably right that it is simply a "copy/paste" left over from 6th ed, but I can't make that assumption, so I police myself accordingly. Come to think of it, I have never had an opponent try to cast more powers than ML either.


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