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I have been thinking over time that a lot of the fluff concerning the IG under estimates the real size of the imperial guard and sheer number of men and women that would be involved in a muster for a crusade for example.

I have seen numbers that seem quite large thrown around but I think the sheer size of the imperium and its population would see even bigger numbers being available.

I have used numbers I think are quite open to debate so please take it with some degree of scepticism

Small planet with limited population - 2.3 billion inhabitants (earth 1940)
Acceptable lose to the population without destroying economy - 25 million (military casualties of WW2 NOT overall casualties just military)
roughly 1%

SO factoring that up.

Imperial Hiveworld population - 100 billion (sketchy info available here, ranges of 5 billion to 500 billion but have discounted lower number given earth today at 6billion is not really as crowded as people think)

1% of the population (easy numbers this time)

1 billion, that's a big army and there are reportedly 32,000 hiveworlds, so 32,000 billion (there is a special name for that I am sure but meh) (EDIT there is and its trillion so 32 TRILLION) soldiers in a single raising forgetting all the other worlds out there.

Now I know you will be thinking yes but you cant take that many every five minutes

so lets look at birth rates.

Assuming something comparable to today in terms of successful births - 20 per thousand population each year
Death rate I assume its a harder life so lets double the current death rate of 7 to 14 per thousand per year.
So every year we have another 6 people per thousand.

so in a population of 100 billion (a single hiveworld) that's a 100,000 thousands so 600,000 new peeps every year. So I would think that the IG levy is just to keep population levels in check!

If we take a billion into the guard every other year the population would still rise by 200,000.

Going on from there the imperium could lose 32 Trillion soldiers every two years and not really notice.....!!

My maths is somewhat crude so I may have missed something there but those numbers are huge. No wonder in the grimdarkness of the far future there is only war, its the only way to stop overcrowding!

Thoughts?

 Steinwand wrote:
I'd hazard to guess that monstrously high birthrates to support equally ludicrous populations are probably encouraged by Planetary Governors out of necessity as the Imperial Tithe is mandatory unless you want the Imperium to come knocking on your door.

I did consider that but thought that things such as level of mutation and poor standards of living might balance out those things in relation to "successful" births but if there was just imagine how much larger the number would be!

Nerak wrote:
Now the first question is where it states that there's 32.000 hive Worlds in the Imperium?

wh40k lexicanium 32,380 - approx.

I didn't even start with factoring in the numbers from other non hiveworlds as the numbers just from these are mind boggling.

 1hadhq wrote:


Thats why I think GW isn't going to touch the question of how many recruts per planetary pop beyond foggy answers.

I totally agree, for GW to acknowledge the true scale of there setting would have serious issues with the tabletop systems. (but hey GW is a collectables company not a games company right heheh)

When you are talking about the fluff needing to reflect the tabletop I think we are already some way away from that to be honest but I think when you start talking number it should be even further. Although there is an awful lot of float when it comes to the fluff capabilities of different groups. Marines for example are quoted in some sources to be on par with 50 or 100 "normal" men, in others they are capable of taking on worlds of millions single handed.

If you look at the first idea (50-100 equivalence) then given the scale of the imperium then they are nothing more than a small elite good for certain situations, amazing for others but in insufficient numbers compared to the guard. They would just end up a subsection of the guard, for boarding actions, or assaults or something. The second idea? well then they are much more useful and have an appreciable impact even with their small numbers but do we really think they are that effective?

Going back to the main topic, I was really interested in establishing a feel for the scale of what is really going on and how in much of the fluff the numbers, while seeming huge are in fact woefully low in comparison to the "reality". If we think of an average earth like world and look to conquer it, a single raising of guard from a single hiveworld would give you an army with 1/6 or 1/7 of the size of the planetary population of the earth! Can you imagine even the combined armies of the earth standing up to that kind of force?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 keezus wrote:
.

On top of this, a hive world would need extremely regular resupply. Given the issues with Warp travel, one would expect that oversupply is necessary to prevent shortage/riots on these worlds. its great to throw around these gigantic numbers but the logistical problems are enormous.

Realistic is not a word I'd apply to GW's population numbers.

And that's why the Administratum and Munitorum and all the other logistical bodies exist, to deal with exactly those issues.

No I will concede that given the scale of the problem and the scale of the bureaucracy that's there to "sort it" that huge cock ups occur, that's enshrined in the fluff as a true example of the grimdark, but largely it all works.

In my mind fluff, for many of the back water worlds the only contact there receive will be the balckships to collect any psykers and the tithe ships of the administratum. For the more important systems we know there are huge amounts of trade and commerce going on with everything from little in system traders right out to the rogue traders and huge trading conglomerates.

I liken it back to the early days of the British Empire where trade around the world was key to keeping it all moving and yet communication around the world was gak and slow and ships very often delayed or lost at sea. but it worked!


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Nerak wrote:
Could you link the page? I'd like to see a reference.

Yeah, the Imperial war machine is epic in scale. Usually it's a question of internal politics (and HERESY) that slows down it's workings though. Don't dwell to much on it though. If you do you'll soon realise how unfair it is when one of the space marine poster boys falls to a lasgun.

http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Hive_World

Obviously I am uncertain where they source is but its a big galaxy so it doesn't surprise me.