Corsair Prince in Allied Detachment

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**vipoid**

Corsair Princes have this rule:

"An ELdar Corsair detachment must include a Corsair Prince..." "A Corsair Prince must always be the army's Warlord."

But, there's also this

"Eldar Corsairs treat other forces as Desperate Allies and may be selected as an Allied Contingent for those armies as desperate allies."

The second part seems to imply that other races can take Corsair allies. But, surely this would only be possible if corsairs somehow weren't the primary detachment (otherwise they'd be taking the other race as allies)?

So, can you take Corsairs in an Allied Detachment to prevent the corsair prince from being your warlord?

**Sarigar**

Some of us are waiting for FW to address this as the two rules do not work together (IE: Corsair Prince must be Warlord but Allied Detachments cannot contain the Warlord).

**ibushi**

My assumption would be that in an Allied Detachment the Prince would not be Warlord... but I can see how "codex trumps BRB" could be a factor.

If only FW changed the wording to "Prince must be the Warlord of the Primary Detachment".

**KingCorpus**

Can't eldar corsairs be battle brothers with dark eldar??

**Jimsolo**

KingCorpus wrote:
Can't eldar corsairs be battle brothers with dark eldar??

Yes, I think that's correct.

**vipoid**

KingCorpus wrote:
Can't eldar corsairs be battle brothers with dark eldar??

They can - I just didn't want to quote the entire section.

**FlingitNow**

What part exactly allows you to use the Allied Detachment? You've not quoted that. So I see no reason to allow using the Corsair Prince in an Allied Detachment?

**vipoid**

FlingitNow wrote:
What part exactly allows you to use the Allied Detachment? You've not quoted that. So I see no reason to allow using the Corsair Prince in an Allied Detachment?

"Eldar Corsairs treat other forces as Desperate Allies and may be selected as an Allied Contingent for those armies as desperate allies."

**FlingitNow**

Take a CAD of Corsair as allies? Any Corsair Formations if there are any.

**vipoid**

FlingitNow wrote:
Take a CAD of Corsair as allies?

Which has to take a Corsair Prince.

Who has to be the Warlord.

Ergo, that CAD is automatically a Primary detachment - not an allies one.

**FlingitNow**

Why would the CAD not be allies?

Automatically Appended Next Post:
You are aware that Allies is a unit level rule not a Detachment level rule right?

**vipoid**

FlingitNow wrote:
Why would the CAD not be allies?

Because it would be the primary detachment.

FlingitNow wrote:

Automatically Appended Next Post:
You are aware that Allies is a unit level rule not a Detachment level rule right?

I'm not sure what you mean here.

How exactly can the Primary Detachment also be allies? Is it allying with itself?

**Ghaz**

vipoid wrote:
FlingitNow wrote:
Why would the CAD not be allies?

Because it would be the primary detachment.

They're still allied to each other.

**vipoid**

But surely the corsairs aren't an "allied contingent"? The allies are the contingent(s) that aren't the primary one.

**FlingitNow**

vipoid wrote:
But surely the corsairs aren't an "allied contingent"? The allies are the contingent(s) that aren't the primary one.

Got a quote to support the underlined as I can't find that in the rules.

**Kommissar Kel**

Allies and allied contingent are the same thing.

An Allied Detachment is a different thing.

An "Allied Detachment" is the specific detachment found in the brb.

Allies or an allied contingent is simply the relationship between any 2 detachments.

2 CADs of dark eldar are allies(or allied contingents) to each other.

**Dozer Blades**

The rule in question implicitly states when the prince must be warlord hence you can field the army as an allied detachment.

**vipoid**

Kommissar Kel wrote:
Allies and allied contingent are the same thing.

Not even close.

'Allies' describes the relation between 2 armies.

'Allied contingent' refers to a particular force of allies, separate from the main or primary force. e.g. If I have an Eldar army with Dark Eldar allies, they are both allies but only the Dark Eldar are an allied contingent.

Likewise, since the Corsair Prince has to be your warlord, his detachment will always be your primary one. Any other detachments will be allied contingents.

Kommissar Kel wrote:

An Allied Detachment is a different thing.

An "Allied Detachment" is the specific detachment found in the brb.

Usually correct, but this case presents an unusual problem - in that any detachment other than an allied detachment one can't be an allied contingent.

Kommissar Kel wrote:

Allies or an allied contingent is simply the relationship between any 2 detachments.

See above.

Kommissar Kel wrote:

2 CADs of dark eldar are allies(or allied contingents) to each other.

Nope. One is your main/primary force, the other is an allied contingent.

Dozer Blades wrote:
The rule in question implicitly states when the prince must be warlord hence you can field the army as an allied detachment.

Could you elaborate on this?

**Ghaz**

And you have rules to back this up? Page and paragraph will suffice.

**FlingitNow**

Nope. One is your main/primary force, the other is an allied contingent.

Again I'm going to ask for a quote to support this. You've made this claim several times now, so you must have some support for it some where. Page and paragraph please.

**blaktoof**

You can't take corsairs as an allied detachment if it has a corsairs Prince.

Because the corsair Prince must be the warlord.

There may be corsair hqs which are not corsair Prince...

**nosferatu1001**

Allied contingent != allied detachment, vipoid.

**Kommissar Kel**

Vipoid: you have both claimed that an allied contingent is the same thing as an "Allied Detachment"(the specific name of the specific detachment in the brb) and that a second Combined Arms Detachment is the same thing as an allied contingent in the same post.

I think perhaps you are very confused about what is going on.

**vipoid**

FlingitNow wrote:
Nope. One is your main/primary force, the other is an allied contingent.

Again I'm going to ask for a quote to support this. You've made this claim several times now, so you must have some support for it some where. Page and paragraph please.

Your army very specifically has a primary detachment. This is your main force, to which you can add other detachments. It cannot possibly be an allied contingent, unless you're claiming that it's allied with itself. You can take allied contingents to support it, but these do not turn your primary force into an allied contingent - it is still your primary force with your army's agreed leader.

Kommissar Kel wrote:
Vipoid: you have both claimed that an allied contingent is the same thing as an "Allied Detachment"(the specific name of the specific detachment in the brb) and that a second Combined Arms Detachment is the same thing as an allied contingent in the same post.

No I didn't.

Please come back when you have an argument and not a barn full of straw.

**nosferatu1001**

So no rules then? Can safely close this thread then, as your case was disproven long ago

If I have two cads they are allies of each. They just aren't using the Allied Detachment. You seem condpfused - maybe reread the basics of this, page 116 from memory, and come back if this is stil a struggle to understand?

**FlingitNow**

Your army very specifically has a primary detachment. This is your main force, to which you can add other detachments. It cannot possibly be an allied contingent, unless you're claiming that it's allied with itself. You can take allied contingents to support it, but these do not turn your primary force into an allied contingent - it is still your primary force with your army's agreed leader.

Yes you have a Primary Detachment. If you take another Detachment, the Primary Detachment and that Detachment are Allied Contingents to each other. The allies rules are two ways and are unit level, so even within a single Detachment the units treat each others as allies. Thus if you have 2 units in a Detachment it be accurate by the rules to call them each allied contingents to each other.

**vipoid**

nosferatu1001 wrote:
So no rules then? Can safely close this thread then, as your case was disproven long ago

Disproved by no rules whatsoever. Got you.

FlingitNow wrote:

Yes you have a Primary Detachment. If you take another Detachment, the Primary Detachment and that Detachment are Allied Contingents to each other.

Do you have even a shred of evidence for this?

Or have you decided that this thread is a perfect time to start a war on the meaning of meaning?

"Eldar Corsairs treat other forces as Desperate Allies and may be selected as an Allied Contingent for those armies as desperate allies."

Why even list both of these when, according to you, they amount to the exact same thing?

FlingitNow wrote:
The allies rules are two ways and are unit level, so even within a single Detachment the units treat each others as allies.

Correct.

FlingitNow wrote:
Thus if you have 2 units in a Detachment it be accurate by the rules to call them each allied contingents to each other.

Again, you're just making stuff up. The fact that 2 armies are allies does not mean that both are allied contingents to one another. One is the main force, the other is the allied contingent.

Unless you have a quote from the rulebook stating that this is the case?

Hell, forget the rulebook, show me a single historical example of an army made up exclusively of "allied contingents".

**FlingitNow**

**vipoid**

FlingitNow wrote:

There is no rules definition of contingent. So you use normal English.

I am. You don't have an army made up entirely of 'allied contingents'. It's just nonsensical.

FlingitNow wrote:
There is a rules definition of allies that not only doesn't prohibit it including the Primary Detachment units but indeed requires them to follow it.

But you can't just ignore 'contingent', which is exactly what you're doing.

FlingitNow wrote:
Do you have any rules to back up your claim that the allies rules don't apply to the Primary Detachment

I find it ironic that you keep asking me for evidence, but I've yet to see you provide even a shred of evidence to back up your claim.

In any case, I didn't say that the allies rules didn't apply to the primary detachment. I just said that it wasn't an allied contingent. The allied contingents are the non-primary detachments. They are your army's contingent(s) of allies. It's literally what the term means.

**FlingitNow**

I am. You don't have an army made up entirely of 'allied contingents'. It's just nonsensical.

Why is 2 contingents allied to each other forming an army nonsensical?