Scion of Sanguinius wrote:
I think your going to get a lot of "Eradicator" for your answer... S6 AP4 Large Blast ignore cover is nice, and it's the cheapest. It's also not on your poll.

Executioner plasma (in group with Pask for Preferred Enemy rerolls), Punisher gatling, and Exterminator autocannon are also decent options. Battle Tank and Demolisher are not good because they can't fire if they move, which is an issue in 7th. I can;t speak to the two Forge World variants.

 Grimskul wrote:

Scion of Sanguinius wrote:
I think your going to get a lot of "Eradicator" for your answer... S6 AP4 Large Blast ignore cover is nice, and it's the cheapest. It's also not on your poll.

Executioner plasma (in group with Pask for Preferred Enemy rerolls), Punisher gatling, and Exterminator autocannon are also decent options. Battle Tank and Demolisher are not good because they can't fire if they move, which is an issue in 7th. I can;t speak to the two Forge World variants.

Battle Tank and Demolisher can shoot if they move, they just can't shoot their other weapons beside their main cannons at full BS because Ordnance makes them snapfire. which the heavy rule does nothing to address.

Allow me to offer some insight at least to how I personally build tanks, specifically; the Leman Russ and its many variants.

Firstly, I will say that I'm NOT a fan of the standard Leman Russ Main Battle Tank, or the Demolisher variant. Both tanks have Ordnance weaponry on the main weapon and should those big guns fire, (and they always should if they can) then all other weaponry on the tank may only ever snap fire. That's not to say these tanks don't have their uses. The Standard Leman Russ Main Battle Tank is a good tank, if not a little high in price for my tastes. That said, should you choose to run one of these bad boys, don't ever equip them with sponson weapons, and leave the hull weapon as either a heavy bolter or heavy flamer. The flamer is nice in that if you're danger-close to a target (within 6"), you can fire the flamer instead of the turret weapon and not risk it scattering backward to hit itself with it's ST:10 AP:2 large ordnance blast.

Now, having said that, any other Leman Russ variant can equip and use sponsons for days and fire them along with the main turret weapon without issue. In most cases I do recommend you put some form of sponson on the tanks, with a couple of exceptions.

The two tanks I run as my own Command Tank squadron are a Leman Russ Commander in a Vanquisher, with a hull lascannon, and a pintle mounted storm bolter/heavy stubber on board (I like the storm bolter for the lower AP, and it's an extra weapon to roll randomly against for weapon destroyed results). Paired with this, I run an Exterminator with a hull lascannon as well. I forgo the sponsons on these two tanks since they're operating out to 48" range most often and spending anywhere from 20 to 40 points for sponsons that they'll rarely, if ever use. These two tanks have a nice synergy, with the Command tank working out to 72" with the main turret gun, backed up by a hull lascannon for follow up anti-armor shots, and the Leman Russ Exterminator following suit at the same target (Or ordered split fire to a separate, lighter armored target) with 4x Twinlinked autocannon shots and it's own hull lascannon shot as well. Most armor gets squeamish looking at this pair, and I have great success with them dealing with armored targets of any kind.

I will also say, these tanks both could benefit from Multimelta sponsons, but the Multimelta is so much shorter ranged, it may be tricky to get them to fire the weapons enough to justify the points you have to spend to put them on the tank. Regarding the Exterminator, if you're looking for a cheaper dakka gun boat, look no further. The autocannon is twinlinked, and plugging in heavy bolter sponsons and a heavy bolter in the hull turns this thing into a beastly direct-fire threat vs. many light vehicles and almost all infantry. Put a pintle heavy stubber up top and you've got a 155 point dakka machine that only gets topped out by the more expensive Punisher variant.

Next, I have my personal favorite 'dakka' tank, and you'll be surprised to know it ISN'T the Punisher. That said, the punisher is a fantastic tank, especially if you want to spring the points to put Pask in it and slap some heavy bolter or multimelta sponsons on it for even more shenanigans, but for me, my preference is the good old Leman Russ Eradicator. For just 145 points (after upgrades) You get a tank that fires all weapons out to 36", so a nice synergy on that end, and fires one ST:6, AP:4 large blast that ignores cover, backed up by 3 heavy bolters (9 shots) as well as a pintle mounted heavy stubber as well (3 more shots). The best part? The large blast it fires IS NOT ordnance, so it fires all other weapons at full Ballistic Skill. It mulches infantry and a pair of them costs less than 300 points to put on the table. If you can find a way to put prescience on them (not hard, Primaris Psyker gets you there) they get even more effective at annihilating any infantry by sheer volume of wounds.

Next we have the Executioner. IF you have a source of prescience, then consider running full energy boat on this thing (Plasma cannon sponsons, Lascannon in the Hull) to help ensure it doesn't glance itself to death with get's hot rolls on the main gun and two sponson plasma cannons. If you don't have a good source of regular prescience, then I suggest going the slightly cheaper route of running Heavy Bolter sponsons with a hull Heavy Bolter and pintle mounted Heavy Stubber. Much like the Eradicator, all weapons reach out to the same range (36") and you will be the bane of anything walking that isn't a wraithknight or hunkering down in a bunker with a hellatiously good cover save (until the Eradicator shell hits anyway). Pair this tank with an Eradicator as it's squadron mate (built as outlined above with heavy bolters and a heavy stubber pintle mount) and you'll have infantry weeping. That pair kicks out 18 Heavy Bolter shots, 6 Heavy Stubber shots, one Eradicator Cannon large blast shot that ignores cover, and Three plasma cannon template shots to round out the fun. Prescience the squadron and the pain train really starts to rev up.

Lastly, the Punisher. I like this tank, I have one I can run regularly, but unless you're putting a commander or Pask in it, it doesn't hit enough for my tastes. Secondly, if you are running a Commander/Pask in it, that tank has to get within 24" of the target to really bring the main gun to bear. That's starting to get in the range of worry for me personally with as fast as many units are these days. I'd much rather be able to reach out 36" and be able to hit with all my guns. That said, I've seen Pask-Punishers do scary scary things. Try each out and see what you think on that end. I like the Punisher with a commander and multimelta sponsons on it with a hull Heavy Bolter. Fires a lot of shots at infantry and you have two additional High ST/Low AP shots you get to send in with the wall of lead. Good command tank option for sure, just way too short ranged for my liking personally.

My reasoning is this, these tanks need to fire EVERY turn to try and make their points back against your enemy. I don't want to spend the first turn or two moving forward to get in range. I want to fire my opening salvo turn 1 from across the yard if able. Most tabletops allow you to get within 36" of something after you move up 6" in the movement phase (42" is a good chunk of table real-estate for sure) on turn one. That's why I tend to favor the tanks with the 36" range weapon range (majority) or higher personally.

That all being said, try some things out, see what you like and what you don't.

You can run any variant of the Leman Russ without sponsons, and it keeps them much cheaper points wise for sure. The LRBT and Demolisher are both great tanks, though the Demolisher suffers from the same issue I have the the Punisher variant I outlined above: 24" range main cannon. My other issue with these two tanks is their base points cost. I think the LRBT, and especially the Demolisher, are very much over-costed for their damage output. At most these tanks are going to be firing 5 to 7 times, only 'direct hitting' on a scatter dice one in three shots (On average). Also, any other weapons they fire after firing the main cannon are snap-fire only, further limiting their damage output. As for recommending one or the other over other variants, that one can be a touch more tricky.

The question you have to ask yourself is this: What role are your heavy tanks going to be filling?

Anti-tank? Anti-Infantry? Utility?

One 'generalist' build I can recommend while using a command tank is a Leman Russ Vanquisher, hull Lascannon (no Sponsons) and always spring the extra handful of points to have the pintle mounte Storm Bolter or Heavy Stubber (Having an extra weapon to roll randomly for a weapon destroyed result helps a lot. 50/50 lose one anti tank gun to 33% loss of an anti-tank gun). This thing murders any armor on the field with the main cannon and the follow up shot with the hull lascannon is no slouch and punching most armor as well.
The secondary tank in the command tank squadron could be a standard LRBT, with a hull mounted heavy bolter. This tank's main gun has the same range as the Vanquisher's main cannon, and can also do decently well at stripping hull points off with the ST:8 ordnance large blast as a follow up to the Vanquisher firing, or split fire with the commander's order and hit an infantry squad or other armored target as well.

I will say, as a backup tank to the LR Vanquisher command tank, I generally prefer the Exterminator, minus the sponsons, and sporting a hull lascannon. As I detailed in my first post in this thread above, the Exterminator's main gun is twinlinked, and fires 4 shots a turn. That's 4 twinlinked autocannon rounds backed up by a secondary hull lascannon shot. This tank gets 3 to 4 hits a turn on average (after re-rolls) and is excellent for a follow up shot after the Vanquisher fires its main gun. Alternatively, you can fire the Exterminator first to hopefully strip a hull point or two off of an armored targegt and then finish the job with the Vanquisher command tank's improved ballistic skill shooting. My other reason for preferring this is as follows: Both tanks can fire at flying targets, the Exterminator is actually VERY good as in impromptu anti-flyer tank with it's 4x twinlinked Autocannon shots. Blast/template weapons cannot shoot at flyers, so if you run a LRBT with a Vanquisher, only the Vanquisher can fire it's main cannon at that flyer. Or, the Command Vanquisher (if you're running one as a commander) can fire at an armored ground target and order split fire to the Exterminator to take a pot shot at the flyer nearby if need be. It's wonderful for utility.

Another tank to consider sans sponsons is the good old Eradicator. It's 120 points base, slap a Heavy Stubber up top and run a pair of them for just 250 points. That's 2x Large Blasts that ignore cover and wound most all infantry on a 2+, outside of thing like Wraithguard, which it still hurts on a 4+. It follows that up with 6x heavy bolter shots and 6x Heavy Stubber shots. Great wound generation and a tough nut to crack from range. This is a rather specialized unit though. You won't be tackling any hard armored targets with them but it is one of the best at clearing troops dug into terrain out with a quickness.

Now, on to the Demolisher. I'd run it as a backup tank with a Command Tank Punisher were I you. Run the Command Punisher (with Pask in it for extra giggles) no sponsons, hull Lascannon (so you get an extra BS:4 Lascannon for long-range shooting) and a Heavy Stubber up top. With that, take the Demolisher to back it up with a Hull mounted Heavy Bolter (Or flamer, but in this instance, go with the Heavy Bolter) only. This would be a close-support HQ choice. Keep a Prescience psyker nearby to help them land their hits regularly. Once in range, this pair will do naughty naughty things to whatever you need to shoot at, and can split fire to put the punisher cannon into infantry, and the Demolisher shell into a hard target (armor or 2+ save infantry), or they can just both hammer a target into oblivion together. Always lead off with the Demolisher shell if you can, as the odds of the targets being clustered is better before the punisher cannon opens up.

The Executioner is another tank that works just fine without sponsons. Depending on your list and the presence of anti tank will determine whether you put a hull lascannon or hull heavy bolter on this tank, but as always, put that Storm Bolter or Heavy Stubber on the turret's pintle mount. It's such a great upgrade for a very small points increase. This tank makes a wonderful pairing with the Eradicator, (as well as the Demolisher if you're looking to spam AP:2 blasts from a squadron). I tend to prefer the Eradicator as the ranges of both main guns match up perfectly. You won't have to worry about not being able to fire one of them at the ideal target because it happens to be shorter on range than the first tank, and you're not always going to have them out as your HQ squadron so the split fire tank order isn't always going to be available.

 Glitcha wrote:
I've been playing Armored Battle Group for a while now. For those that don't know, its a very tank heavy list. It is really what you plan on using the tanks for Anti-infantry or anti-armor, or both? Personally, I run vanquishers as an anti-armor units and then take storm troopers for anti-infantry. Also, I'll tank the Company tank command over Pask any day.

 Ironwolf45 wrote:
Appreciate the replies so far mates. Not gonna lie, I am kind of surprised that the Eradicator is getting so many votes, especially since that I already have a lot of anti-infantry with my chimeras and the infantry inside them. As it stands, I am currently leading towards either the Demolisher, the Executioner, the standard Leman Russ, and possibly the Vanquisher, however it's risky with only BS3.

 Red__Thirst wrote:
Also, don't sell a Punisher with Pask in it short. Twenty shots, hitting on 3+ with Preferred Enemy (re-rolling 1's on the to-hit and penetration rolls) with Rending tends to net you more damage than a lone Demolisher will.

Not saying the Demolisher can't work, or is a 'bad' choice, but Pask in a Punisher also allows for both a hull Lascannon that benefits from Preferred Enemy and hits on 3+ even when the main cannon fires, along with sponson weapons (I prefer Heavy Bolters for the added range and hits on non-vehicle targets, but Multimeltas allow for added anti-tank) out to the same range as the Punisher cannon, hitting on 3+ as well.

Just my opinion on a command tank. Take it easy for now.

-Red__Thirst-

 Ironwolf45 wrote:

Spoiler:

 Red__Thirst wrote:
Also, don't sell a Punisher with Pask in it short. Twenty shots, hitting on 3+ with Preferred Enemy (re-rolling 1's on the to-hit and penetration rolls) with Rending tends to net you more damage than a lone Demolisher will.

Not saying the Demolisher can't work, or is a 'bad' choice, but Pask in a Punisher also allows for both a hull Lascannon that benefits from Preferred Enemy and hits on 3+ even when the main cannon fires, along with sponson weapons (I prefer Heavy Bolters for the added range and hits on non-vehicle targets, but Multimeltas allow for added anti-tank) out to the same range as the Punisher cannon, hitting on 3+ as well.

Just my opinion on a command tank. Take it easy for now.

-Red__Thirst-

Fair enough mate, however I am mainly asking this to see which Leman Russ Varient people feel would be the most effective in a Mechanized Infantry list, not about Pask to be frank. With that being said, while I understand the reason people like the Eradicator, I am most likely not going to field it as I need a LR varient that is more flexible, and my Army already has a ton of Anti-infantry weaponry so i am surprisedit got so many votes. To make it clear, looking for a Leman Russ Varient that can be good against Infantry, but if needed can also provide backup and damage Vehicles and such.

 tankboy145 wrote:
Now also how are you equipping your infantry squads in chimeras? Are you doing infantry squads or are you doing vet squads? How many of these are you typically running in most of your lists.

And if you are going for anti tank then yes I would consider tha vanquisher and exterminator. The exterminator I would maybe go with the hull LC and sponson MM's. As for the vanquisher I would go with the hull LC and sponson MM's if you want to be pure anti tank/big target hunter, or give it plasma cannons with the plasma it at least allows it to still damage light/medium armor and now allows it to hit more infantry/heavy infantry models with the small blasts.

Some people will suggest not using sponson MM's because they are such short range but from my experience playing guard a while the enemy will close the distance with you. Guard is very poor in close combat and if your playing a good opponent they will try to assault or melta your Russ. Russ are very durable and unless your opponent has haywire/lance/D-weapon(cover helps negate these), then they probably won't hurt your Russ. That then forces them to assault it or use melta both require getting close. Also if your opponent drops units in close its always good to have the extra fire power from the sponsons to help get rid of those targets.