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Summary
How much better is an aspect host over regular aspect warrior? This post will discuss the difference between the two and show you how much better the aspect host is. There will be a good amount of mathhammer in this post, and I will try to make it as easy to follow as possible.

Aspect Host Perks
The key benifits of the aspect host are the +1 to either a BS or WS. They also can reroll morale, fear and pinning tests. They also must take an exarch, which is not a bad thing as you always want to take one anyway (for reasons I will address later)

BS 5 vs BS 4
So the real question is...how much better is BS 5? You can look through the mathhammer examples below if you like -- but the answer is you get roughly a 25% increase in DPS (damage per shot). Like all multiplicative effects, you get a better bang for your buck using this on something that already produces big numbers over something that produces small numbers, ie 25% more on 1,000,000 dollars is a lot more than 25% on 50 cents. This means this ability is best used on targets like shuriken cats vs GEQ, or dark reapers vs bikes. If something is already good at killing it, the scale of improvement will be greater.

WS 5 vs WS 4
This is a bit more tricky. The answer is dependent on the target your unit is facing.

WS 3 targets
There is no DPS increase nor durability increase.

WS 4 targets
Instead of hitting on 4s, the aspect host is now hitting on 3s. This means your models will do 1/3 more damage against their targets. Against the right targets, this is a big damage increase. Given the number of armies that have a WS 4 baseline, this is a nice bonus.

WS 5 targets
There is no damage increase vs these targets, but instead there is a durability increase. This is because the enemy unit is now hitting your unit on 4s instead of 3s.
This means your aspect host will benefit from a 25% damage reduction in incoming damage. In other words, if normally you would lose 10 models in the assault, you would only lose 7.5.

WS 2- targets
What about those crazy tau or a unit that failed it's fear test vs banshees? In this case, the enemy model will move from hitting on 4s to hitting on 5s.
This results in a 1/3 damage reduction -- significantly reducing the amount of incoming damage taken by the aspect host.

Leadership tests
How much better are the chances of failing a test with the reroll? Pretty darn good. There is a 16.66% chance of failing a LD 9 roll, or about 1/6 chance. This means that if you pick up that dice and roll it, on a 1 the aspect host would fail.

Now, if you get a reroll, that means you would have to roll the 1 twice in a row to get that same effect. This means only 1/6 of the time that you reroll the dice you fail the test, or a 1/36 chance of failure.

This means the chances of an aspect host failing one of those tests goes from ~16.66% to ~2.78%. That is a huge difference.

That's a nice write-up.
For people coning into the game, or newer Eldar players, it's invaluable.
The restrictions are made up by the benefits, but it is difficult to justify it without thinking it through.

Your math is wrong in the ws4 spoiler and in the ws5 th/ss example.

If you are analyzing the formation, you should look at the drawbacks, as well as the advantages. Admittedly the drawback are almost non-existent, but it makes for a better review if you mention them

You mention the exarch. Are there times this is a bad idea? They can add points to a unit, and while they are often well spent, can be seen as a tax.

You need to take 3, and only three, squads. Generally you can work this into a list, but it can be an issue with the final point:

Every squad in the formation needs to take the same bonus, WS or BS. Some units, like banshees, don’t really care about BS. And while WS can help keep you alive if someone comes over to pop your head off, is generally not needed on shooting units.

As a note, Fire Dragons benefit more than it seems, since each shot they land on a vehicle also carries the possibility of, essentially, Instant Death.

This is why, if I'm taking a single Aspect Host, Dragons and Reapers have an almost guaranteed spot. Reapers, because they can ignore Jink and have AP3, so they counter bikes with aplomb, and BS5 helps them do that without needing Farseer support. Dragons, because if I don't have Wraithguard, they're my go-to for both vehicle and MC extermination, and if I have enough of them, they're solid against heavy infantry too.

As for Exarchs, IMHO, they're points well spent on Scorpions, Banshees, Spears and Reapers. On Avengers, Hawks and Spiders they're good but not critical, and on Dragons they feel like a bit of a tax. Therefore, I never buy the Firepike on my Dragon Exarchs. One shot doesn't matter often enough, and I'd want to be moving into range anyway. Keep him cheap. Hawks and Spiders can benefit from their upgraded weapons, but keep your intended target in mind. (The bit of guaranteed AP1 for the Spiders can be nice if you frequently target AV10 or heavy infantry).

 Nevelon wrote:
You mention the exarch. Are there times this is a bad idea? They can add points to a unit, and while they are often well spent, can be seen as a tax.

Those are excellent points, and great ideas.
These are the reasons I find exarchs are one of the best buys in the game.

Wound Soaking
Firstly they have en extra wound per model. If you compare the upgrade cost vs adding another model, you find that it's cheaper to add the exarch to add another wound. They might not add another model worth of damage output, but they are cheaper than another model and add extra benifits.

Cheap Characters
Look at the statline for an exarch and compare it to the statlines of characters in other books. Marines feel like sad panda's when their sergeants are compared next to an exarch, who is more in line with a chaplain than an sergeant. This is reflected by the +1 WS, BS, W, I, and Attack. In comparison a Chaplain only gets +1 WS, W, Attack and LD. You could argue the Chaplain gets more wargear, but I'm just talking about statlines.

Why are cheap, useful characters useful? Assaults, challenges, shooting grenade packs, etc...

Special Rules
Each exarch comes with special rules that either add to the squad or make the exarch more powerful. A 4+ invulnerable save on the exarch, for example, means he can soak a big hit (maybe 2) before dying, making the entire unit harder to shift off an objective. An extra shot increases the DPS of the exarch by 50%.

Extra Wargear
Being able to get things like a tempest launcher are pretty keen (especially for sniping, since you are BS 6 and not likely to deviate with 3 shots). Grabbing a heavy flamer for your fire dragon squad increases their threat capability. Sure, there are some weak examples, like TL shriken cats, or powerblades (ultimate failsauce), but as a general rule more options = better.

Summary
Those are all nice perks, but what really makes them great is the cost. At 10 points a pop (15 for DR) they are a steal for all they provide. In my current ITC list I've been fielding 13 of them, and have been pleased with them every time.

jade_angel wrote:
Dragons they feel like a bit of a tax. Therefore, I never buy the Firepike on my Dragon Exarchs. One shot doesn't matter often enough, and I'd want to be moving into range anyway. Keep him cheap.

Swap for the heavy flamer. You already will have enough melta to slag any vehicle, being able to toss out a STR 5, AP4 template means you can also be a threat to infantry -- especially when added to the BS5 melta guns.
By the way, jade_angel, thanks for your constructive input.

jade_angel wrote:
Hawks and Spiders can benefit from their upgraded weapons

I've not tried with the hawks yet. I keep eyeballing the talon, and even modeled a model with one, but I've not tried it yet.

I can tell you that the warp spider exarch weapons are all actually DPP (damage per point) decreases for the model. They benefit from TL'ing BS6 shots is so little, that it's not even worth 5 points. Getting a rapid fire gun has little value, as spiders are such rapid shooting units anyway. The chances of you needing that extra 6" is just so slim it's not worth it.

Kaela_Mensha_Khaine wrote:
Your math is wrong in the ws4 spoiler and in the ws5 th/ss example.

Corrected. The math itself was not wrong, the conversion of percentages was incorrect due a copy and paste error. Thank you for pointing this out. It has been corrected.

Averaged over multiple turns, yeah, the spinneret rifle is a net DPP loss, but I often take it anyway because the AP1 makes my results against units with good armor saves a little less swingy. I can nearly guarantee a dead Marine with that. Of course, it's massively less good if you're facing Necron Immortals instead of Marines, or if your target is in cover, or has a storm shield, or Forewarning, or any of a zillion other survival tactics.

I suppose it comes down to what else you'd be doing with the points, like most any other tradeoff.

I disagree with the premise that the firepike and spinneret rifle are not worth taking.

The guaranteed ap1 on the rilfe and has the same number of shots as a normal weapon albeit at 3 inches shorter range. With how fast the spiders move it is rare that he won't be able to get 2 shots.

The same with the firepike, (more for av 14 or vehicles with invulns). Disembarking from your transport, that has been blown up or after running (without the auto 6) a bad roll for run or difficult terrain can put some of your dragons out of melta range, but the exarch can move up from the back because of the 3 extra inches for melta range he no longer takes up space that another dragon can use to be in normal range or melta.

Kaela_Mensha_Khaine wrote:
I disagree with the premise that the firepike and spinneret rifle are not worth taking.

The guaranteed ap1 on the rilfe and has the same number of shots as a normal weapon albeit at 3 inches shorter range. With how fast the spiders move it is rare that he won't be able to get 2 shots.

The same with the firepike, (more for av 14 or vehicles with invulns). Disembarking from your transport, that has been blown up or after running (without the auto 6) a bad roll for run or difficult terrain can put some of your dragons out of melta range, but the exarch can move up from the back because of the 3 extra inches for melta range he no longer takes up space that another dragon can use to be in normal range or melta.

While it was in the last codex, I’ve had that exact thing happen with my fire dragons. After popping their primary target, the just legged it over to the next nearby tank. Range was a bit of a stretch, but because I had invested in the pike, he was able to get a shot in. Odd case? Maybe. Worth the points? I’m not sure. 15 points is a lot for just a few more inches.

It feels like a heck of a lot as an upgrade from a fusion gun - it's the same cost and same profile as a Tau fusion blaster, but that's upgrading from an empty mount. At 5 points, I'd call it a no-brainer.

jade_angel wrote:
It feels like a heck of a lot as an upgrade from a fusion gun - it's the same cost and same profile as a Tau fusion blaster, but that's upgrading from an empty mount. At 5 points, I'd call it a no-brainer.

I agree. If the pike was 5 points, it would be a no-brainer upgrade, but at 15 it's just to much. When another dragon is only 22 points, it's hard to justify that 15 points for the 6" extra range.

Back before battle focus existed, you could make a better case for it, but with the battle focus, the dragons have an effective range of 6" move + 4" run + 12" gun or 22", with the double pen hitting range of 16". If your formation guarantees you the 6" run, they get much more reliable.

Fire dragons also have 3+ saves now, making them tougher than their 4+ save friends. Combined with getting a BS 5, melta bombs, getting +3 on the vehicle damage table, and sporting STR 8 AP1 weapons for each model -- it makes them extremely dangerous and effective.

Kaela_Mensha_Khaine wrote:
The guaranteed ap1 on the rilfe and has the same number of shots as a normal weapon albeit at 3 inches shorter range. With how fast the spiders move it is rare that he won't be able to get 2 shots.

The solution to this is real easy, lets run the math! Given the cost of a warp spider, how much more firepower does the rife give you? Your opportunity cost is the exarch's normal death spinner, and 15/19 of another death spinner.

Spinneret Rifle vs Deathspinner vs MEQ
This is the chances of the rifle killing per shot.
(31/36 to hit) * (5/6 to wound) = 155/216 chance to kill per shot. ~71.7%
At long range this is .72 dead MEQ per turn and at short range 1.43 dead MEQ per turn

This is what a death spinner would look like. We have one from the exarch and 15/19 from a normal warp spider.
Since each spinner denies a save on 1/6 of the wounds, we will have to calculate each shot differently, then add them together.
(31/36 to hit) * (4/6 to wound) * (1/3 failed armor save) = 31/162 chance to kill per shot. ~19.1% +
(31/36 to hit) * (1/6 to wound) = 31/216 chance to kill per shot. ~14.3% +
(5/6 to hit) * (4/6 to wound) * (1/3 failed armor save) * (15/19 rifle per spider) = 25/172 chance to kill per shot. ~14.5% +
(5/6 to hit) * (1/6 to wound) * (15/19 rifle per spider) = 75/684 chance to kill per shot ~10.1%
Finding our LCD we get the following.
101308/529416 + 75981/529416 + 76950/529416 + 58050/529416 * (4/1 number of shots) or 1249156/529416 or ~2.36 dead MEQ per turn.

Summary
The example shown above is the one best case situation for the Spinneret Rifle. Against GEQ, or units in cover the rifle drops even further.
That's why I say the rifle is not worthwhile on a per point basis. If you are just looking to do more damage with a specific hard hitting unit, you can consider it, but if you are just looking to toss 15 more points into the squad, you are better off throwing those 15 points into another spider.

All that said, Kaela_Mensha_Khaine, if you find the pike and rife to be worth it, go ahead. Sometimes people's practical experience holds more value than the raw math. Everyone's opinion is valid, and helps those lurkers who just view our posts.

If you're forced to spend the points on an Exarch, make it as killy as you can.
22 points for the body, another x for the upgrade and 15 for the pike. It looks a lot, but how good is the exarch with the default weapon?

I understand the math but you can't kill a person with 15/19 of a spider. Also you have to consider the what you would spend the points on. My melee oriented host has 60pts of upgrades, my shooting ones has 50 pts. Now if you take a bunch of hosts those points add up but if your only running one there isn't much to spend the 50/60 pts on.

Kaela_Mensha_Khaine wrote:
I understand the math but you can't kill a person with 15/19 of a spider. Also you have to consider the what you would spend the points on. My melee oriented host has 60pts of upgrades, my shooting ones has 50 pts. Now if you take a bunch of hosts those points add up but if your only running one there isn't much to spend the 50/60 pts on.

That's a valid point.

The way I build my hosts is that I pick the upgrades I want, and then tweak the squad sizes to make the points match. For example, I might run this for my warp spiders.
- 6 man squad
- 6 man squad
- 7 man squad
If I find that I'm 19 points under/over I might add another man or take one away from the squad. There are benefits and drawbacks to this solution, like any other.

What is your current list that you are using?

Here is an interesting wrinkle in the Aspect Host issue: Wave Serpents. A few of us in my group have discussed the issues that come with buying dedicated Wave Serpents for the units in the Aspect host.

Namely the 2 issues are:
1) Do Wave Serpents (as part of the formation) gains +1 BS?

2) Can you even take Serpents since the formation restriction states that all units in the formation must take an Exarch, which a Serpent cannot do? And no, the unit buying the Serpent doesn't count its Exarch, since they are in fact separate units.

The general consensus (i.e. house rule) seems to be that the formation can take Serpents, but they gain no bonus as the Serpents themselves cannot obey the Restriction.

 Galef wrote:
The general consensus (i.e. house rule) seems to be that the formation can take Serpents, but they gain no bonus as the Serpents themselves cannot obey the Restriction.

That is how I would rule it as well.
However, I could see someone making a case that the aspect host cannot bring wave serpents at all.

I thought that the restrictions were:
Take 3 aspect units,
Upgrade all of them with the exarch,
choose either BS or WS.

There are no restrictions, so I cannot see why you cannot upgrade the units further, based on the unit's own datasheet.
The datasheet lists a WS as a DT choice. This is nothing to do with the formation.

In the restrictions section it says: "ALL units in this formation MUST take an Exarch". Even though a Serpent is taken as a DT for a unit in the formation, they are a separate units, meaning they must also take an Exarch, which they cannot do. Conundrum.

One cannot say that the Serpent is not part of the Formation, because EVERY unit must be part of a Detachment, or else become Unbound. If taken as a DT, the Serpent must be part of the detachment its Infantry unit is part of.

The best solution seems to be allowing the Serpent (cuz it would be silly not to), but not giving it the benefit of the +1 BS/WS.

I was quasi-forced to work around this in a recent game by transporting my Dragons in Falcons bought as HS choices in a CAD, though that feels like a kluge. I prefer Falcons for Dragons anyway, or I'd probably have argued about this to get a ruling one way or the other from the league organizer.

jade_angel wrote:
I was quasi-forced to work around this in a recent game by transporting my Dragons in Falcons bought as HS choices in a CAD, though that feels like a kluge. I prefer Falcons for Dragons anyway, or I'd probably have argued about this to get a ruling one way or the other from the league organizer.

The ability to drop 3 falcons full of aspect warriors, without any worry of scattering is very good. Tanks for the memories.

 labmouse42 wrote:

Kaela_Mensha_Khaine wrote:
I understand the math but you can't kill a person with 15/19 of a spider. Also you have to consider the what you would spend the points on. My melee oriented host has 60pts of upgrades, my shooting ones has 50 pts. Now if you take a bunch of hosts those points add up but if your only running one there isn't much to spend the 50/60 pts on.

That's a valid point.

The way I build my hosts is that I pick the upgrades I want, and then tweak the squad sizes to make the points match. For example, I might run this for my warp spiders.
- 6 man squad
- 6 man squad
- 7 man squad
If I find that I'm 19 points under/over I might add another man or take one away from the squad. There are benefits and drawbacks to this solution, like any other.

What is your current list that you are using?

My list for the last league at my FLGS was a storm guardian warhost with 3 10 man squads of guardians with swords and melta, and a warlock with spears, Farseer with the spirit stone and the burning sword artifact, 3 vypers with dual shurikan cannons (possibly with holofields), 3 walkers with dual SL, and 3 D-cannon vaul's support. Then I had the Avatar in command, and my shooting aspect host of 10 Dark Reapers with everything, 5 or 6 fire dragons (can't remember) in a bare bones WS, and i would switch out between 6 hawks and 5 spiders. Here I can only think to add some stuff to my WS, or add a lock to the vaul's support, or some useless artifacts to my Farseer.

The league before that was when I ran my defender guardian warhost, which was practially the same thing but with no warlocks and the host contained Scorpions, Banshee's, and Spears/Dire Avengers, The commands would be Jain Zar/Kanadras and Eldrad/Asurmen and the Avatar. I also didn't run D-cannons just the shadow weavers, and just the stone on my seer. With the 60ish pts again I could have thrown in a lock for one squad. but thats about it.

 Galef wrote:
In the restrictions section it says: "ALL units in this formation MUST take an Exarch".
....
The best solution seems to be allowing the Serpent (cuz it would be silly not to), but not giving it the benefit of the +1 BS/WS.

That was the bit I was missing. I could not see why there was any reason to dispute it until you pointed out that bit.
Since skimmer pilots are not aspect warriors, it seems silly to apply the +1 skill to them.