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Because I seriously cannot stop thinking about it.

SUMMARY:
My vision for 40k is one game becoming five separate but interconnected games, with 15 different armies across them.

--------------------------

THE GAMES:
The five games are Warhammer 40,000: Skirmish, Warhammer 40,000: Assault, Warhammer 40,000: Epic, Warhammer 40,000: Space Hulk, and Warhammer 40,000: Battlefleet.

SKIRMISH


ASSAULT


EPIC


SPACE HULK


BATTLEFLEET


--------------------------------

THE ARMIES:
Fifteen Codices would be available to choose from:

CODEX: ORKS


CODEX: TAU


CODEX: NECRONS


CODEX: TYRANIDS


CODEX: CRAFTWORLD ELDAR


CODEX: DARK ELDAR


CODEX: ELDAR HARLEQUINS


CODEX: THE LOST AND THE DAMNED


CODEX: CHAOS LEGIONS


CODEX: SPACE MARINES


CODEX: IMPERIAL GUARD


CODEX: ADEPTUS MECHANICUS


CODEX: SISTERS OF BATTLE


CODEX: GREY KNIGHTS


CODEX: ROGUE TRADERS


--------------------------

THE BUSINESS PLAN:

So... you renamed 40k, Cityfight, Apocalypse, Zone Mortalis and Battlefleet Gothic. I don't see the point you're trying to make here.

 SharkoutofWata wrote:
So... you renamed 40k, Cityfight, Apocalypse, Zone Mortalis and Battlefleet Gothic. I don't see the point you're trying to make here.

Well, it wouldn't just be renaming them, it'd also be about taking a mess of Rulebooks and Expansions and creating a single clean set of products from them.

I don't see what you are trying to do.
Why to separate things ?
If I want to make an assault on a fortified position, I can with current 40k, and if don't want to, I don't do it.
Your space Hulk is just Zone Mortalis.
You battfleet is just just battlefeet with a narrative element introduced in.

The feelings I have is you are trying to do the player job.
Anyone anywhere can say: "We won't play with Lord Of War"
Or make a campaign involving space battle with advantages for the winner.
I'm sorry if I missed something.

 godardc wrote:


The feelings I have is you are trying to do the player job.
.

One could argue that would be a net positive for GW. Its no secret that people like to be spoon fed.

Skirmish should be the base game.

Epic is...well Epic 40k but done with 40k's base rules (so basically Apocalypse)

Space Hulk is essentially Kill Teams.

Assault is essentially a Hold The Line mission, which is more like the objectives we have now (except one side starts with them) .

Rulewise, the only thing I agree with is the nixing of the Dark Angels and Blood Angels. Lost and the Damned can easily be merged into Chaos Legions, hell they never had that many unique units of their own anyways (most of it were stolen from the Chaos Codex and Imperial Guard Codex of the time, and the unique ones they did have usually served functionally similar roles in the main CSM dex). SoBs, Grey Knights and the Inquisition should be merged together into "Agents of the Imperium". I'm not sure if Rogue Traders should even be represented, but if they are it should be in the vein of the Harlequins dex; as a support force.

EDIT: Also, you may wanna have a mod move this into the Proposed Rules section.

 MechaEmperor7000 wrote:
(...) I'm not sure if Rogue Traders should even be represented, but if they are it should be in the vein of the Harlequins dex; as a support force.

I just like the idea of Rogue Traders being playable in actual 40k.

I thought assault was Planetstrike

Anyway without any further fleshed out rules or ideas I tend to agree this is literally just renaming the 5-6 different variations of 40k and its subsets that already exist.....

 Ratius wrote:
I thought assault was Planetstrike

Anyway without any further fleshed out rules or ideas I tend to agree this is literally just renaming the 5-6 different variations of 40k and its subsets that already exist.....

Well, if you want to shell out for every single Rulebook and Supplement, be my guest.

 Lord-Captain Cepinari wrote:

 MechaEmperor7000 wrote:
(...) I'm not sure if Rogue Traders should even be represented, but if they are it should be in the vein of the Harlequins dex; as a support force.

I just like the idea of Rogue Traders being playable in actual 40k.

If your Rogue Trader is in combat, he failed a Fellowship roll. In which case, he'd roll Willpower before hiking his rich arse out of there.

 Lord-Captain Cepinari wrote:

 Ratius wrote:
I thought assault was Planetstrike

Anyway without any further fleshed out rules or ideas I tend to agree this is literally just renaming the 5-6 different variations of 40k and its subsets that already exist.....

Well, if you want to shell out for every single Rulebook and Supplement, be my guest.

You haven't presented another option. You wrote a list with a bunch of spoiler tags that didn't say anything important. Expand on your ideas, because right now you're just wish listing.

Well, if you want to shell out for every single Rulebook and Supplement, be my guest.

No one disagrees that there is an absolute myriad of expensive suppliments and rule sets.
Im just asking for a better alternative. Which I dont see presented here.

 SharkoutofWata wrote:

 Lord-Captain Cepinari wrote:

 Ratius wrote:
I thought assault was Planetstrike

Anyway without any further fleshed out rules or ideas I tend to agree this is literally just renaming the 5-6 different variations of 40k and its subsets that already exist.....

Well, if you want to shell out for every single Rulebook and Supplement, be my guest.

You haven't presented another option. You wrote a list with a bunch of spoiler tags that didn't say anything important. Expand on your ideas, because right now you're just wish listing.

You want expansion? Fine.

----------------

On the Skirmish, Assault and Zone Mortalis scale, Weapons have a fixed number of Attacks per Turn. They are 1A, 3A and 5A.

1A W are things like Lascannons, Missile Launchers and Thunder Hammers.

3A W are things like Bolters, Lasrifles and Chainswords.

5A W are things like Heavy Bolters, Assault Cannons and Lightning Claws.

Certain Character Traits and Wargear options could increase the number of Attacks, but only by 1 each.

---------------

Weapons used in the larger scale game would be divided by 1A, 2A or 3A. Nothing that can reduce an entire Skirmish-sized play field to a glassy crater should be allowed to fire five times a turn.

---------------

Space-scale Weapons would all be 1A. Thus, the number of Attacks per Turn a Ship has is equal to the number of Weapons it carries. On the other hand, smaller weapons are reloaded much faster than bigger ones...

Missiles and Fightercraft would operate under different rules.

---------------

Here are two Rogue Trader Army List Troop Options I thought up:

ARMSMEN:
* Stats: Like those of the Imperial Guardsmen, except slightly better Morale. The catch is that the maximum number of Models in the unit is less then that of a unit of Imperial Guardsmen.
* Equip: Default Load-out consists of Flax Armor and Autoguns. Yes, that is correct, Autoguns. A few of them can switch to Combat Shotguns for free, but if you want Lasrifles you have to pay extra. They do come with Frag Grenades and Combat Knives as standard though. You can also pay out the nose to give them all Carapace Armor as well.

MERCENARIES:
* Stats: I'm gonna say 'equivalent to Kasrkin' for now. They start with Las-weapons and Carapace Armor, they have better Saves, and they have better Morale. Kinda. They don't lose Morale from being in combat easily, but if it's starting to look like nobody's gonna be left to sign their pay checks they'll start to consider quitting the battle.
*Equip: Carapace and Lasrifles. Also Combat Knives, Frag Grenades and Las-pistols. Can freely swap for Combat Shotguns, and can pay for Flamers, Bolters, Missile Launchers, Heavy Stubbers, Hellguns, Krak Grenades, Chainswords and Melta Bombs.

------------------

How's that for a single post?

So you've renamed the shooting profile now. Why? What makes 3A better than Assault 3 in the current game system? And why would Lightning Claws just get a 5A? It doesn't matter if they're wielded by some lowly grunt or a great Captain/Chapter Master with centuries of experience, they both attack the same number of times or with a measly +1?

Why is a hired gun Armsman have more morale than a trained and professional soldier of the Imperium? And a Mercenary has better stats than the elite Kasrkin and Militarum Tempestas? That makes sense? How do they 'start to consider quitting the battle"? I think this would be best served with the Rengades and Heretics idea where the Marauders can not regroup for any reason after failing a morale test.

You keep saying 'different rules' but you're not going into enough detail here. If you want to reinvent the game, then do it. But don't just say 'this is different in my head' since we don't live in there. We don't know anything except what you write down.

 SharkoutofWata wrote:
So you've renamed the shooting profile now. Why? What makes 3A better than Assault 3 in the current game system? And why would Lightning Claws just get a 5A? It doesn't matter if they're wielded by some lowly grunt or a great Captain/Chapter Master with centuries of experience, they both attack the same number of times or with a measly +1?

Why is a hired gun Armsman have more morale than a trained and professional soldier of the Imperium? And a Mercenary has better stats than the elite Kasrkin and Militarum Tempestas? That makes sense? How do they 'start to consider quitting the battle"? I think this would be best served with the Rengades and Heretics idea where the Marauders can not regroup for any reason after failing a morale test.

You keep saying 'different rules' but you're not going into enough detail here. If you want to reinvent the game, then do it. But don't just say 'this is different in my head' since we don't live in there. We don't know anything except what you write down.

The 'trained and professional soldier of the Imperium' has to share his stats with the 'conscript who doesn't want to be there' and the 'convict who's looking for an opportunity to escape.' The recruiting pool for Armsmen is a bit less varied than the one for Guardsmen.

I like that Morale mechanic you mentioned.

To reinvent 40k we must first boycott them and make sure GW goes out of business. We wait 10 years. then try to buy the dead rights to 40k dirt cheap in an age where no body plays table top games anymore because people have Playstation 69 and xbox4chan and Nintendo Wii Stick it in Uii.

Most of the models will be ancient relics nobody wants to collect and most are dumped. All the books and dexs would be collecting dust in a basement as books no longer exists as people read on a Nook/ Kindle or Kinookdel.

with all the models and books lost in the warp, 40k can finally be reinvented.

Since there will no longer be any new models. The new architect of fate can finally balance out the game. Every rule will make sense. There will be no more complicated charts or random rolling. There will be no more undercosted or over costed units. There will be no more imbalanced and over powered units or formations. Everything will be near perfect. If anyone power games and find an exploit then it will be quickly and easily FAQed because all the rules, codex, and point costs will be in 1 big pdf/google document for all tk see and read for free.

I agree with Filch. At this point any fixes to the 40k rules without completely overhauling it is like patching a sinking boat with scotch tape. We need a new boat.

Hi folks.
I can sort of see where the OP is coming from.
GW used to make separate games that were focused on a particular type of game play.

Inquisitor/Necromundia as detailed skirmish games.

40k 2nd ed was a large skirmish game, more suited to pick up games than Rouge Trader was.

And Epic covered the larger battles.

Just because GW plc SALES DEPARTMENT (foolishly) thought that if GW only made a battle game using 28mm minatures , then that is what all their customers would buy.

But the resulting mess of a rule set from too many compromises to count , left people with a 40k game that is practically unplayable without quite a lot of player agreement before hand.

However, with a glimpse of a light at the end of a very long and dark tunnel.
IF GW are resurrecting their specialist games .

Then all the old game play types will be covered with these new games!
But even if they are not , there are loads of good 28mm skirmish games to convert for 40k if that is what floats your boat.

And there are a few good 6 to 15mm battle games that can be converted to cover the old epic massive battle games too.

So really its only the 'company level detailed battle game with 28mm minatures' that needs a rule set writing specifically for it.

IF anyone is interested in writing a ground up completely new rule set for 40k, focusing on the intended game play ,NOT SHORT TERM MINATURE SALES!

Then I am happy to discuss options , but lets get a proper design brief focusing on the scale and scope of the game, and the game play type first.

Because if you dont define what you want to end up with before you start, you ALWAYS end up with a mess...