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what kind of configuration would be usefull for a walking hive tyrant ?

it should fit with a core of
1 winged tyrant with 2 scything talons, warpfield, toxic miasma
2 gunfexes
2 or 3 * 16 hormagaunts
2* 16 spinegaunts
which is not going to be godzilla some day (i personaly dont like it - there has to be much blood and gore and many small things diing)

i thought about

A) HT with VC, TL devourer, enhanced senses, 2 or 3 guards

B) HT with 2* TL devourer, enhanced senses, 2 or 3 guards

C) HT with VC,BS, enhanced senses, 2 or 3 guards

this mainly adresses modeling issues, so shadow in the warp or warpfield are options im concerned about later on. although experiences with that would be appreciatet also.

as i dont field any dakkafex atm i though B would be a wise choice.
C seems to make to fex out of the 3 attacks with the BS, i think this is the worst setup from the 3 above.

well, leaves it up to A or B. what are your thoughts ? thanks for your time.

Barbed Strangler on a Hive Tyrant is a horrible waste. Go with B if you don't face too many skimmers/etc or if you already have Gunfexes to take care of vehicles.

Hive Tyrants with a Venon Cannon are one of the better nid anti tank options out there, while the duel devourer version is devastating to infrantry. Even meqs will lose on average 3 guys to one of his volleys.
I actually use set up C, and it is a flexible set-up that can be quite potent with a psychic choir forcing the enemy to take ld tests at -4.
My advise, since the H. Tyrant is so flexible, to have it fullfill the role that you need it to for shooting. H. tyrants with VC are your most reliable anti unit in the game. In my mind, the question becomes devourer or BS. I think that the BS only begins to truly shine with a choir, and you have several of them pinning several enemy units a turn.

There are only 3 possible configurations for walking Tyrants IMO:

1) Venom Cannon, TL Devourer, +1BS, Shadow in the Warp (or Psychic Scream) and Tyrant Guard(s).
2) 2x TL Devourers, +1BS, Shadow in the Warp (or Psychic Scream) and Tyrant Guard(s).
3) Venom Cannon, Scything Talons, +1BS, Shadow in the Warp (or Psychic Scream) and Tyrant Guard(s).


Most of the time I would go with #1.

thanks for the replies. i think he wont get a BS.

im still unsure about toxin sacs +S. i wonder how the (avarage wounds on meq)/(price of the hive tyrant) would behave with(out) toxin sacs. i think ill calculate that tomorrow, to decied if toxin sacs are worth the points. or did you do that allready yakface? isnt it also very needed if i should use the venom cannon vs tanks ? S7 seems to be rather weak as the VC is also not able to do more then glancing hits.

well a quick ..

we can leave hit% and armor% out so lets take a look at the thoughness vs strength.

Target : Toughtness 3

Str 4 devourer : 0.6 + 0.4 * 0.6 = 0.84 avg wounds per hit
Str 5 devourer : 0.8333 + (1-0,8333)*0.8333 = 0.97 avg wounds per hit

-> 13% shooting effektivness increase

Target : Toughtness 4

Str 4 devourer : 0.5 + 0.5 * 0.5 = 0.75 avg wounds per hit
Str 5 devourer : 0.6 + 0.4 * 0.6 = 0.84 avg wounds per hit

-> 9% shooting effektivness increase

hmm i dont have the army list with me atm, so i dont have the points nor the increased points for the HT with(out) +S. ill edit this later, time for BBQ have a nice day and thanks for your time.

Edit (blue Text):
So lets take a look at the coefficient of performance (Cop) which is (avg. wounds per hit) / (Cost of the whole tyrant + guards) for only the devourer. ill do that with and without the guards and with and without toxin sacs for the 2 configurations with Venom cannon,Devourer and 2*Devourer.

Configurations :
1a) Hive Tyrant with 2*Devourer,Improved senses,Shadow in the Warp - 111pts
1b) Hive Tyrant with 2*Devourer,Improved senses,Shadow in the Warp,2 guards - 201pts
1A)Hive Tyrant with 2*Devourer,Improved senses,Shadow in the Warp,Toxin Sacs - 131pts
1B)Hive Tyrant with 2*Devourer,Improved senses,Shadow in the Warp,Toxin Sacs,2 guards - 221pts

2a) Hive Tyrant with Venom Cannon,Devourer,Improved senses,Shadow in the Warp - 133pts
2b) Hive Tyrant with Venom Cannon,Devourer,Improved senses,Shadow in the Warp,2 guards - 223pts
2A)Hive Tyrant with Venom Cannon,Devourer,Improved senses,Shadow in the Warp,Toxin Sacs - 159pts
2B)Hive Tyrant with Venom Cannon,Devourer,Improved senses,Shadow in the Warp,Toxin Sacs,2 guards - 249pts

<table style="width: 100%;" align="left" border="1" cellpadding="1" cellspacing="0"><tbody><tr><td valign="top">
</td><td valign="top">Cost
</td><td valign="top">avg.Wounds per Hit vs T3
</td><td>avg.Wounds per Hit vs T4</td><td>CoP for T3
</td><td>Cop  for T4
</td></tr><tr><td valign="top">1a
</td><td valign="top">111
</td><td valign="top">0.84
</td><td>0.75
</td><td>0.0075675
</td><td>0.0067567
</td></tr><tr><td valign="top">1b
</td><td valign="top">201
</td><td valign="top">0.84
</td><td>0.75
</td><td>0.0041791</td><td>0.0037313</td></tr><tr><td valign="top">1A
</td><td valign="top">131
</td><td valign="top">0.97
</td><td>0.84
</td><td>0.0074045
</td><td>0.0064122
</td></tr><tr><td valign="top">1B
</td><td valign="top">221
</td><td valign="top">0.97
</td><td>0.84
</td><td>0.0043891
</td><td>0.0038009
</td></tr><tr><td valign="top">2a
</td><td valign="top">133
</td><td valign="top">0.84
</td><td>0.75
</td><td>0.0063157
</td><td>0.005639
</td></tr><tr><td valign="top">2b
</td><td valign="top">223
</td><td valign="top">0.84
</td><td>0.75
</td><td>0.0037668
</td><td>0.0033632
</td></tr><tr><td valign="top">2A
</td><td valign="top">154
</td><td valign="top">0.97
</td><td>0.84
</td><td>0.0062987
</td><td>0.0054545
</td></tr><tr><td valign="top">2B
</td><td valign="top">249
</td><td valign="top">0.97
</td><td>0.84
</td><td>0.0038955
</td><td>0.0033734
</td></tr></tbody></table>

Green shows the best Cop vs T3 and also T4.

So, what we can see here is that the Toxin Sacs do increase the Cop (which means that they are more cost effektive), in any Configuration.

In case of configuration 1B vs 2B we can see that the Cop of Devourer Fire decreases by ~11.25% if you use 2B instead of 1B.So if you buy a VC as 2nd Weapon option, your devourer pays for the VC with its effektiveness.On the other hand youll get the advantage to have the VC as 2nd weapon. hmm maybe ill check those 2 weapons against T3 and T4 later on to see if a VC is an advantage vs the Devourer if you shoot T3 or T4. probably not. anyway , tanks and range ...

Lets take a look at the guards. First of its quite obvious that the Cop of the Devourers will decrease if you buy guards for your HT, as the guards only cost points and help not at all in increasind your shooting.
<table style="width: 100%;" align="" border="1" cellpadding="1" cellspacing="0"><tbody><tr><td>
</td><td>Cop decreases by "x" due to 2 Guards, same for Target T3 & T4
</td></tr><tr><td>1ab
</td><td>44.77%
</td></tr><tr><td>1AB
</td><td>40.73%
</td></tr><tr><td>2ab
</td><td>40.36%
</td></tr><tr><td>2AB
</td><td>38.16%
</td></tr></tbody></table>Nothing much to see here. if your HT alone is more expansive, then the Guards decrease the Cop less.If you buy 2 guards your Cop for the Devourers drops by the shown percentage.

well, now one thing i did not expect to see here.Take a look at the Orange Cops which are the most effektive builds if your oponent doesnt shoot back (you have no guards) and compare them to the Red Cops. It states that you should not take Toxin Sacs if you have no guards, even if your enemy is not shooting back which is quiete strange, isnt it . this is because the price for the HT increases more then his avg wounds per shoot do if you do not raise the base price with the guards.a shooting upgrade for a shooting unit only gets effektive if you buy non shooting units as backup.now thats a nice math joke isnt it ?

I hope there are no misstakes in it due to the hangover from the BBQ yesterday. have a nice day.

Sorry 'bout that. +1S is indeed necessary (and worthwhile) for all three configurations I presented.

S4 is fine if you are just making a very cheap tyrant, I would not bother with guard in this case though, it serves a somewhat different role.

S5 is a killer against eldar wraithlords though! Deviltyrant with S5 devs is great against the lords!

edited, see post above.

while reading the edited text i spoted a misstake.for some reason i cant edit the post above anymore, the html code seems to be coruppted due to the use of colors. below the first table it should read:

Green shows the best Cop vs T3 and also T4 if you have 2 guards.

So, what we can see here is that the Toxin Sacs do increase the Cop (which means that they are more cost effektive), in any Configuration with 2 guards.</span">

I used a Tyrant with 2 sets of TL devourers, and actually killed 2 termies in the shooting phase.  12 hits, 11 wounds, and 2 failed armor saves.  I was impressed, though I am still trying out different configurations for Mr. Tyrant.

 

HT with VC, TL devourer, toxin sacs, enhanced senses, 2 or 3 guards

This is what I use. Good all around shooter.

It has 3 shots at long range that can be used for tank hunting, and an additional 6 at close range for anti-infanatry.

Yup, I like the VC, TL-Dev, TS, ES, 2 guard option. I've run the VC/ST variant, but I wasn't impressed. Walking Tyrants don't get into much CC, and the one extra attack isn't worth the loss of an 18" 6-shot twinlinked weapon.

Especially when facing squadrons of landspeeders. The 6 extra TwL S5 shots will average an extra 2 glances, doubling the HT's antispeeder output and making a kill quite likely. I don't like to waste my Gunfexes on speeders when there are tanks around, so the HT gets antispeeder duty. Speeders have to get within 24" for the assault cannons as well, so 6" move + 18" Devourer range works out quite nicely.