Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Hi Dakka,
a cyclop demolition vehicle is a FW unit from Imperial Armour volume one second edition.
It is infantry, and can, during an assault phase (yours or your opponent's one) "detonate".
When you do this, you "center the large template on the cyclop, and resolve the attack as shown with the profile below" (it is a earthshaker profile).

A cover save is when at least 25% of your target is hidden to the unit who fire.

The cyclop doesn't shoot, but I can trace a line of sight from him to the ennemy unit, he has a line of sight.
And if his line of sight is obscured, the opponent has a cover.

(page 14 and 37)

Am I right ?

Because I found some adepticon and "New Indy Tournament FAQ up! Version 1.7" on Frontline gaming which specify that the cyclop ignore cover.

I'm doubtfully.

Thanks !

Unless it specifically says "ignores cover" in its rules you may always attempt a cover save.
As it uses earth shaker rules I assume it does not have ignores cover.

This is why I never thought it ignore covers.
It has an earthshaker's profile, in deed ( strength, ap and is artillery 1, large blast), but maybe the ignore cover thing comes from the "detonate" rule ?
I'm just curious to know what they (adepticon and new indy tournament) did this curious FAQ.

The rules for cover saves are written assuming you are being targetted by a shooting attack. The rules do not cover obscure units such as this which 'detonate' in assault. As such I don't think there is a firm basis for either granting or denying a cover save.

The closest analagous unit is the Spore Mine which is specifically stated as ignoring cover which may be the basis for that tournament ruling.

There isn't any reason to deny a cover ssave gained without needing Los however - so bring "in" ruins, junking etc.

Yes, this is what I think too.
Maybe, due to the strange attack rule it can delete cover saves, but not those granted without lines of sight.
Anyway, I'm awaiting an email from FW, as I emailed them today.

It does not have an "earthshaker profile" it has a rather similar profile.

The "remote vehicle" rule tells us the cyclops has no ranged weapon, so rules on ranged weapons or shooting attacks do not apply.

You cannot Jink the attack because your unit is neither targeted, nor targeted by a shooting attack.

As far as ruins go; that would depend on whether or not the cyclops demolition charge is considered a "close combat attack" (either when made at I10 or accidental from destruction of the model).

TL;DR: It is in no way a shooting attack. But it may or may not be a close combat attack.

Best course: discuss with opponent.

HIWPI: accidental detonation outside of assault phase grants cover, in assault phase detonation(accidental or purposeful) does not.

I didnt say you were "jinking" the attack; you may already have "jinked" earlier that turn, in whcih case you still retain a cover save

It isnt a close combat attack, so without Ignores Cover it doesnt, erm, ignore cover.

To play a bit of Devil's Advocate, what kind of attack is it, then?

 Psienesis wrote:
To play a bit of Devil's Advocate, what kind of attack is it, then?

The same kind of attack as Vector Strike.

"unusual" being one way to describe it

The demolition charge explodes at initiative 10 in close combat. So it is no shooting attack and thus your opponent does not get a coversave.

 Psienesis wrote:
To play a bit of Devil's Advocate, what kind of attack is it, then?

The only thing we can say for certain is that it is not a shooting attack.

Cover saves are not limited to shooting attacks, so the cyclops demolition charge not being a shooting attack does not necessarily mean it doesn't grant a cover save.

There are 3 kinds of attacks that we know of: shooting, close combat, and special. Special is a more blanket term the encompasses the other 2 in a way.

It has been almost fifteen days since I emailed FW, and still no answer.
Is this normal or are they usually quicker ?