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I'm thinking of adding a tesseract vault to my necron army but heard that superheavys/LoWs are cheesy (Note im taking about 1,850~+ games), are there just particular ones that are cheese or is it a misconception i'm having. for the points values the vault seems not the best, especially since the main weapons are completely random, thoughts on the matter?

LoW by definition are not cheesy.

It's just that some of the currently cheesy units are LoW.

The vault in particular, not only it isn't cheesy, it's even far less bothersome than just spamming more necron troopers, and is considered of the least bothersome superheavy units, mostly due to its randomness (could you pick ctan powers though, it would probably be the cheesiest)

I have a group of friends that think anything labeled super heavy or is big like that cheesy. Would you say this would be okay to bring to a 1850+ game with my opponent using his knight?

There are definitely some LoW that are pretty cheesy, such as wraithknights, or virtually any Titan. Personally, I would also consider Imperial Knights to be pretty cheesy compared to most other super heavies, but there seem to be lots of people who disagree. Something to remember it that a lot of factions now have special characters as Lords of War, like ghazgkull, Logan grimnar and the avatar of khaine, and from what I've seen they generally aren't even considered very strong let alone cheesy.

In short, LoW aren't inherently cheesy, but there are plenty of them that would fall into that category.

As mentioned, LoW's are not necessarily cheesy just because of where they sit in the Force Org. Riptides are classed as cheese by a lot of players and they are not a LoW.

It depends on the unit. If you wanted a prime example of a cheesy LoW unit, then you just need to look at the Wraithknight and see what it can do and then look at how many points it costs compared to other units in the game.

Nobody can accuse someone of being cheesy by bringing say Gabriel Seth in a Flesh Tearers/BA detachment just because he's a LoW.

As said, some LoW models are cheesy, others not.
Wraithknights and Titans can be hard to deal with, others like the Baneblades have too less damage output and can be popped if you manage to get into cc with them.

As stated above, being a LoW does not automatically mean cheese. In fact, I'm of strong belief that even running a Tesseract Vault or an Obelisk in less-than 2k games is fine, because they're so tame.

The TV is a bit too unpredictable although it can be devastating if you hit the right unit with the right weapon modulation. The Obelisk is not at all cheesy. Its just a slightly ''better'' Monolith.

If I'm not mistaken, according to the escalation book, every 3 HP or wounds dealt to a SH or GC is a victory point. Additionally your opponent gets +1 to seize rolls if they don't have a lord of war and you do. Please correct me if this rule does not apply anymore, but I saw nothing in the BRB that states that it doesn't. While the BRB no longer has LoW's as "detachments" the escalation book simply states that if you take a LoW "unit" these rules apply. This could easily be looked at as a disadvantage for LoW's since it means you're basically giving your opponent VP's to kill the biggest point sink and damage dealer in your army.

 chrispy1991 wrote:
If I'm not mistaken, according to the escalation book, every 3 HP or wounds dealt to a SH or GC is a victory point. Additionally your opponent gets +1 to seize rolls if they don't have a lord of war and you do. Please correct me if this rule does not apply anymore, but I saw nothing in the BRB that states that it doesn't. While the BRB no longer has LoW's as "detachments" the escalation book simply states that if you take a LoW "unit" these rules apply. This could easily be looked at as a disadvantage for LoW's since it means you're basically giving your opponent VP's to kill the biggest point sink and damage dealer in your army.

These rules no longer apply. They only apply if you're using the scenarios and rules from Escalation, which no one does. Escalation is all but obsolete now.

 krodarklorr wrote:

 chrispy1991 wrote:
If I'm not mistaken, according to the escalation book, every 3 HP or wounds dealt to a SH or GC is a victory point. Additionally your opponent gets +1 to seize rolls if they don't have a lord of war and you do. Please correct me if this rule does not apply anymore, but I saw nothing in the BRB that states that it doesn't. While the BRB no longer has LoW's as "detachments" the escalation book simply states that if you take a LoW "unit" these rules apply. This could easily be looked at as a disadvantage for LoW's since it means you're basically giving your opponent VP's to kill the biggest point sink and damage dealer in your army.

These rules no longer apply. They only apply if you're using the scenarios and rules from Escalation, which no one does. Escalation is all but obsolete now.

You're correct, the errata/appendix actually completely replace the 3 paragraphs that add those rules, thanks!

I agree with the others even so. IMO LoW are not by definition cheese. The Baneblade is an excellent example of this. It may have some significant offensive power, but at the end of the day it dies to a few melta guns, MC, or meelee.

What defines then for being cheesy the same thigs as the other models. But Low have a higher risk since they are somewhat on the extreme spectrum of the point cost curve.

-Extreme high Point efficiency.
-Extreme Durability.
-Extreme Damage output.
-Extreme movability or transport methods

Most lord or wars don't check those boxes. But some do and are really nasty. Sadly it isn't always that obvious before you see one in action and it also depends on the army you play against.

Lords of War (or rather the units that they were before the Lord of War designation existed) use to be seen as cheese because they use to be the only source of Gargantuan creatures, superheavy vehicles, D-strength weapons and flyers. All of those use to be rules that were so esoteric to the game that whole new systems had to be made just to make them not shatter the base 40k system (strength D is the most obvious, as it was designed because the strength system only went up to 10 and couldn't go above it). They were cheese because those rules came so far out of left field that there was no way a normal player can prepare for it without explicitly knowing that the LoW-style unit was to be used. It didn't matter how much they costed in points; they could be overcosted and still completely crush someone simply because weapons that could have affected them were so few and far between that the normal player likely wouldn't have enough to destroy the unit, much less do so before being wiped off the board (Gargantuans were this; most lists handled MCs with poison weapons since they have a higher rate of fire than the usual high-strength anti-tank weapons. Gargantuans needed actual high-strength weapons to get through their toughness, which are usually single-shot weapons that didn't have anywhere near enough shots to do enough damage).

Fast Forward to 7.5 edition. Now such things are everywhere in the game and counters are more widely available. Gargantuans, Superheavies, SD, and flyers all got comparatively nerfed than their old incarnations and everyone has readily access to them now. However the stigma remains since LoWs still possess rules that generally go beyond what the game system is meant to accommodate.

No one unit type is on it's own cheese, just as formations, flyers, allies are not on there own cheese. It's certain units and combos not broad categories.

Hell, Logan grimnar is a lord of war, and no one has ever said he is cheesy. For Renegades, the spined chaos beast is a lord of war, and they are the most hilariously bad MC in the game.

Just depends on which lord of war you take.

In that same way it depends what choices you take in the Heavy Support or Elite or Fast Attack slot.

In the same way someone refuses to play because someone took Calgar, the other can refuse because they took Dark Reapers. It is all ridiculous.

As with any balance mechanism; points. No one complains about a generic baneblade because it's weapons and chassis start at 500 points. A wraithknight, on the other hand, can 1 shot that same baneblade for 2/3rds the cost. That's what, at least in my opinion, makes something cheesy or not.