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I may be crazy... we'll i took harlequins primary to a GT... its safe to say im crazy! Either way here is a silly list I have been thinking up for a possible run at a GT. I dont have that many renegades yet so I can use the ridiculous 400 praetorian guardsman that I have sitting in my basement collecting dust. Let me know if you think this list is competitive, fun, and/or annoying.

Take note my detachment special rules allow me:
My warlord allows the infantry squads to return normally on a 5+ the detachment bumps this to a 2+
Squads return at full strength and upgrades when destroyed or fled off the table on a 2+... these squads can also outflank when they do so.
My squads give each other a 3+ cover save if obscuring each other.
All squads have autoguns for free

1850 Pts - IA: Renegades of Vraks (IA5) Roster

: Vraks Renegade Unending Host Detachment (Primary Detachment) (314#, 1850 pts)

4 Renegade Command Squad, 70 pts Command Net Vox; Fanatic; Uncertain Worth
1 Arch-Demagogue Frag Grenades; Flak Armour; Close Combat Weapon; Laspistol; Fanatic; Independent Character; Master of Renegades; Master of the Horde; Uncertain Worth; Chaos Covenant; Covenant of Nurgle; Warlord

1 Void Shield Generator, 100 pts Impassible Building (AV13) with Battlements; Projected Void Shields; Additional Projected Void Shields x2)

1 Renegade Infantry Platoon, 359 pts
16 Platoon Command Squad (Militia Training; Command Net Vox x1; Uncertain Worth Meltagun x4
1 HW Team w/ Autocannon
1 HW Team w/ Autocannon
16 Renegade Infantry Squad (Militia Training; Meltagun x4; Uncertain Worth)
1 HW Team w/ Autocannon
1 HW Team w/ Autocannon
16 Renegade Infantry Squad ( Meltagun x4;; Militia Training; Uncertain Worth)
1 HW Team w/ Autocannon
1 HW Team w/ Autocannon

1 Renegade Infantry Platoon, 359 pts
16 Platoon Command Squad (Militia Training; Command Net Vox x1; Uncertain Worth Meltagun x4
1 HW Team w/ Autocannon
1 HW Team w/ Autocannon
16 Renegade Infantry Squad (Militia Training; Meltagun x4; Uncertain Worth)
1 HW Team w/ Autocannon
1 HW Team w/ Autocannon
16 Renegade Infantry Squad ( Meltagun x4;; Militia Training; Uncertain Worth)
1 HW Team w/ Autocannon
1 HW Team w/ Autocannon

1 Renegade Infantry Platoon, 449 pts ((IA5 - 2E, pg. 249))
16 Platoon Command Squad (Militia Training; Command Net Vox x1; Uncertain Worth Plasma gun x4
1 HW Team w/ Lascannon
1 HW Team w/ Lascannon
16 Renegade Infantry Squad (Militia Training; Plasma gun x4; Uncertain Worth)
1 HW Team w/ Lascannon
1 HW Team w/ Lascannon
16 Renegade Infantry Squad ( Plasma Gun x4;; Militia Training; Uncertain Worth)
1 HW Team w/ Lascannon
1 HW Team w/ Lascannon

1 Renegade Infantry Platoon, 437 pts ((IA5 - 2E, pg. 249))
16 Platoon Command Squad (Militia Training; Command Net Vox x1; Uncertain Worth; Grenade Launcher x4
1 HW Team w/ Lascannon
1 HW Team w/ Lascannon
16 Renegade Infantry Squad (Militia Training; Grenade Launcher x4; Uncertain Worth)
1 HW Team w/ Lascannon
1 HW Team w/ Lascannon
16 Renegade Infantry Squad ( Grenade Launcher x4;; Militia Training; Uncertain Worth)
1 HW Team w/ Lascannon
1 HW Team w/ Lascannon

38 Plague Zombie Mob, 114 pts (Fearless; Feel No Pain (4+); Slow and Purposeful; Warp Plague)

3 Renegade Rapier Laser Destroyer Battery, 70 pts Artillery; Laser Destroyer Array x3; Militia Training; Explosive Demise; Extremely Bulky)
3 Renegade Crew (Militia Training; Uncertain Worth)

Total Points: 1850pts


Obviously the list has the intent of just hitting you with a silly amount of high strength shooting and dakka. The more I die the better off I am.

Cons of the list:
Mobility
Deathstars could eat me
I rely on my squads dying for outflank
The entirety of my army is BS3
I have 0 armour saves
Kill points = auto loss!

Pro's:
Lots of shooting... not much can weather the amount of high strength shooting that I put out per turn
A true horde army that can drown your opponent in bodies
durability is nice if I can give myself cover
WCKD is good...

Does this army have a legit shot at winnning a GT or am I seriously putting too much faith in numbers?

Without OS, or mobility options, I think you are going to struggle to compete in Maelstrom, and if someone can survive the firepower, they might be able to steal primary.

If you face a Gladius list, I think you are screwed, because they will just null deploy, and then come in, and play for a game that ends on the bottom of 2 or 3. If you were guaranteed turn 5, you would win.

The New Wraith Knight with its double hellstrom that are S7 shred will walk through this list if you can't put it down.


I've run Endless Swarm Tyranid lists, and while this is way, way better, the problem was I was constantly counting on my opponent to help me out by finishing off my units, and if they just left one or two alive, I wasn't able to refresh, and use my Trygon tunnel. I think you'd have a similar problem with outflank.

tag8833 wrote:
Without OS, or mobility options, I think you are going to struggle to compete in Maelstrom, and if someone can survive the firepower, they might be able to steal primary.

If you face a Gladius list, I think you are screwed, because they will just null deploy, and then come in, and play for a game that ends on the bottom of 2 or 3. If you were guaranteed turn 5, you would win.

The New Wraith Knight with its double hellstrom that are S7 shred will walk through this list if you can't put it down.


I've run Endless Swarm Tyranid lists, and while this is way, way better, the problem was I was constantly counting on my opponent to help me out by finishing off my units, and if they just left one or two alive, I wasn't able to refresh, and use my Trygon tunnel. I think you'd have a similar problem with outflank.

Yea, those were some of my fears... the VSG should help with the vulnerability to templates. Ide also shoot for a warlord trait that either allowed me to scout or infiltrate some squads.
I actually wouldnt mind facing a gladius strike force. It would be an army i could compete against in kill points and their grav guns mean nothing to me.

... I thought you get a special weapon per 5 men. How are you getting a 4th melta gun?

 Tomb King wrote:
I actually wouldnt mind facing a gladius strike force. It would be an army i could compete against in kill points and their grav guns mean nothing to me.

Yeah you'd win if the game went the distance, but I doubt it would. The Top Gladius list (Steve Sisk) made it to turn 5 only once at LVO (The game he lost), and your army isn't going to be quick to play, so chances are the game ends early.

 Filch wrote:
... I thought you get a special weapon per 5 men. How are you getting a 4th melta gun?

Its iffy... but its per 5 models... when i take a 20 man squad, 2 combine to form a heavy weapons team. They are still a full 20 man squad just less actual models because of the HWT... it will not let me take additional models to get back to 20. I believe RAI the models are still counted for the total number taken in the squad.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

tag8833 wrote:

 Tomb King wrote:
I actually wouldnt mind facing a gladius strike force. It would be an army i could compete against in kill points and their grav guns mean nothing to me.

Yeah you'd win if the game went the distance, but I doubt it would. The Top Gladius list (Steve Sisk) made it to turn 5 only once at LVO (The game he lost), and your army isn't going to be quick to play, so chances are the game ends early.

I wouldnt let him do what he did to that poor WarConvo player... i can play fast if needed. Not exactly my first rodeo but i do understand the concern. i would have to use a TAC template to speed up movements. The biggest issue is rules arguments that bog the game down. I usually avoid this by explaining anything that may cause friction during a game as i deploy. The more your opponent understands why something happens the least likely he is going to drop a WTF when it actually happens.

I have played similarly large infantry lists and it is a pain to play.

With that list you better not run into some death star, or a Decurion. All those shots won't be near enough to keep the enemy away from objectives.

One improvement I think you should make is add Chaos Sigils everywhere. It is just so valuable to be able to tie up enemy units for a turn in CC. You will probably find yourself charging into CC a lot - mostly to get your units killed. If you just stand and shoot with that list, a smart opponent will shoot your units until the HWs and SWs are dead, and leave the odd model alive.

Aleinikov wrote:
I have played similarly large infantry lists and it is a pain to play.

With that list you better not run into some death star, or a Decurion. All those shots won't be near enough to keep the enemy away from objectives.

One improvement I think you should make is add Chaos Sigils everywhere. It is just so valuable to be able to tie up enemy units for a turn in CC. You will probably find yourself charging into CC a lot - mostly to get your units killed. If you just stand and shoot with that list, a smart opponent will shoot your units until the HWs and SWs are dead, and leave the odd model alive.

I have considered the sigils but saved the points because i dont exactly want them to stick around. It would make it easier for my opponent to leave units barely alive as they auto pass morale.

 Tomb King wrote:

I have considered the sigils but saved the points because i dont exactly want them to stick around. It would make it easier for my opponent to leave units barely alive as they auto pass morale.

The SoV Sigils actually don't let you autopass like it does in IA13. Your units gain stubborn and can choose to reroll the first failed check per game turn.

The best part of the Sigil is that its use is optional. Both the IA13 and IA SoV Sigils have the wonderful "may choose to" wording. So when your unit is close to the board edge and fails morale, you don't use the sigil. When you are in CC in your turn and fail a check, you take the reroll - same for the unit that is far up the field and would need several turns to run off the table.

While it would certainly look very cool, I think you'll find yourself struggling to have room for all your models in your deployment zone. That's the first problem.

Even with Outflank you'll struggle to reach objectives in your opponent's center, and a decent opponent will thin down your squads instead of wiping them out, denying you respawns.

I won't be with my IA books until later tonight, but from what I remember when I tried an Unending Tide, I read the respawn/Outflank as them being forced to Outflank instead of having a choice. I might be wrong on this, but worth bearing in mind.

I recommend a light table thats easy to carry around to have next to you, as well as a lot of paper and charts to keep track of which unit had what leadership etc. (as its all random!).

How good is it at a GT? Depends entirely on the mission format I'd say.

You should definitely give the list a few practice games, and please write a short bat rep/summary if you do with some pics, I would love to see 400 traitor Praetorians!

If you're interested in reading about my own experience running the Unending Tide formation you can do so here

Renegades were the most successful army at LVO:


My friend tells me many of those armies had tons of bodies.

So you might be onto something, though none of them were able to crack the top 8.

This formation has the potential to be one of the most broken things in the game at present. Hope you have fun using it, and hope the table doesn't flip when you drown your opponent in corpses!

 QuazzaP wrote:
This formation has the potential to be one of the most broken things in the game at present. Hope you have fun using it, and hope the table doesn't flip when you drown your opponent in corpses!

Hardly as broken as one would think. Its still a game of scoring maelstrom objectives. Your still killing immense amounts of bodies. Even lasguns can remove half my army in one turn. Ide rather face an army i can kill 3 times then face an army I shoot at the whole game and not even tarnish the paint.

 Tomb King wrote:

Hardly as broken as one would think. Its still a game of scoring maelstrom objectives. Your still killing immense amounts of bodies. Even lasguns can remove half my army in one turn. Ide rather face an army i can kill 3 times then face an army I shoot at the whole game and not even tarnish the paint.

+1 to that. Playing Tide , while super-stressful, can be lots of fun. And a lot of the players I played with my Tide commented how fun it was to see me take my models of the table by the handful. Literally everything in the army will be very useful in killing renegades by the dozen, which must be a lot more fun than shooting an entire army into a Necron or DA/SW Deathstar for zero losses.

You will get a lot of easy wins against unsuspecting opponents, but once the guy on the other side of table understands what the Tide does, games will become tough.

From my understanding of the wording of Master of horde and Unending host, the units you respawn don't have to be in the same detachment as your Arch-demagogue, they just have to be in the same army. This means you can take the Unending host with the minimum 4 troops choice (i'd say 4x10 plague zombies at 120 points) and then take a CAD for objective secured for all the infantry. This counter one major objection against this kind of list.
Let me know if I'm wrong!

 RenegadeKorps wrote:
From my understanding of the wording of Master of horde and Unending host, the units you respawn don't have to be in the same detachment as your Arch-demagogue, they just have to be in the same army. This means you can take the Unending host with the minimum 4 troops choice (i'd say 4x10 plague zombies at 120 points) and then take a CAD for objective secured for all the infantry. This counter one major objection against this kind of list.
Let me know if I'm wrong!

Master of the Horde states chosen in this detachment. The unending horde detachment requires the Master of the Horde be chosen for the demagogue which can only be chosen by the warlord. So unfortunately i cannot bring the OBSEC infantry squad for multiple reasons. That is the biggest drawback to the formation.

Well, I have «Imperial Armour The siege of Vraks» in front of me and it says : «Whenever an individual Renegade infantry Squad bought as part of the same army» (Master of the Horde, p. 238). It's not a matter of detachment. The wording is the same in Imperial armour 13.

The rules of the Unending host detachment says : «when rolling to see whether destroyed Renegades Infantry Squads are returned to play in Reserves, as per the Master of the Horde, etc.» (p. 270). It doesn't have to be the squads of this detachment.

One might say that a command benefit benefits only units of the concerned detachment, which is true. Here, though, I would say it concerns the rule Master of the Horde, which is the special rule of a model in the Unending host detachment, namely the Demagogue.

Otherwise (as per your reading), it would mean that if I take some Infantry squads as part of the Unending host and some as part of a CAD, the first would come back on a 2+ and the others on a 5+, which would be odd (though not impossible, I admit). But when I read all the rules together, it seems to me that all squads will come back on the same roll result.

Note that the command benefit «Til the guns run dry» says specifically : «when a Renegade unit from this Detachment, etc». So in that case, there is a restriction. But the other rules are not formulated that way.

What's your thought?

 RenegadeKorps wrote:
Well, I have «Imperial Armour The siege of Vraks» in front of me and it says : «Whenever an individual Renegade infantry Squad bought as part of the same army» (Master of the Horde, p. 238). It's not a matter of detachment. The wording is the same in Imperial armour 13.

The rules of the Unending host detachment says : «when rolling to see whether destroyed Renegades Infantry Squads are returned to play in Reserves, as per the Master of the Horde, etc.» (p. 270). It doesn't have to be the squads of this detachment.

One might say that a command benefit benefits only units of the concerned detachment, which is true. Here, though, I would say it concerns the rule Master of the Horde, which is the special rule of a model in the Unending host detachment, namely the Demagogue.

Otherwise (as per your reading), it would mean that if I take some Infantry squads as part of the Unending host and some as part of a CAD, the first would come back on a 2+ and the others on a 5+, which would be odd (though not impossible, I admit). But when I read all the rules together, it seems to me that all squads will come back on the same roll result.

Note that the command benefit «Til the guns run dry» says specifically : «when a Renegade unit from this Detachment, etc». So in that case, there is a restriction. But the other rules are not formulated that way.

What's your thought?

I will have the books in front of me again on Tuesday. I will have to see about this as I thought it mentioned detachment... though a 5+ is hardly much of a benifit... OBSEC is nice but reducing their ability to come back by that much is a hard pill to swollow.

I have also been toying with the idea of having an army full of hot shot lasguns to counter the SM heavy meta..

In all likelihood i will end up running the tyrant for the ability to shut my own men... its just too cool of an idea to pass up.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 RenegadeKorps wrote:
Well, I have «Imperial Armour The siege of Vraks» in front of me and it says : «Whenever an individual Renegade infantry Squad bought as part of the same army» (Master of the Horde, p. 238). It's not a matter of detachment. The wording is the same in Imperial armour 13.

The rules of the Unending host detachment says : «when rolling to see whether destroyed Renegades Infantry Squads are returned to play in Reserves, as per the Master of the Horde, etc.» (p. 270). It doesn't have to be the squads of this detachment.

One might say that a command benefit benefits only units of the concerned detachment, which is true. Here, though, I would say it concerns the rule Master of the Horde, which is the special rule of a model in the Unending host detachment, namely the Demagogue.

Otherwise (as per your reading), it would mean that if I take some Infantry squads as part of the Unending host and some as part of a CAD, the first would come back on a 2+ and the others on a 5+, which would be odd (though not impossible, I admit). But when I read all the rules together, it seems to me that all squads will come back on the same roll result.

Note that the command benefit «Til the guns run dry» says specifically : «when a Renegade unit from this Detachment, etc». So in that case, there is a restriction. But the other rules are not formulated that way.

What's your thought?

To think of it... i could just run an allied detachment and pay 50pts for 5 deep striking veterans.

Forge world Knight list would ruin your day, - 1 strength to range weapons would mean you have 5 lascannon shots that can do anything at all

wpago wrote:
Forge world Knight list would ruin your day, - 1 strength to range weapons would mean you have 5 lascannon shots that can do anything at all

Not sure how to counter that... i dont think any army except eldar could handle knights with -1 strength to their shooting as they feature destroyer weapons. I still have lots of melta in the list. Melta would require me to get up close though.

Flamers! Ignore your low WS and overwatch the enemies that try to assault you. A squad with 4 flamers that outflanks will be far more frightening than the same squad with grenade launchers.

I would go 2 flamers + 2 meltas and meltabombs for maximum flexibility - your squads won't be able to move around so the plasma squad meets the terminators.

Why all the HWT? Aren't you going to assault into enemy territory - then it's better with separate, Heavy support, HWT teams. Or replace some with artillery (that the Renegades get soooo cheap).

You could add Spawns and maybe the cheap gigant spawn LoW Nurgle offers as fast troops/objective grabbers/distraction units.

superkuf wrote:
Flamers! Ignore your low WS and overwatch the enemies that try to assault you. A squad with 4 flamers that outflanks will be far more frightening than the same squad with grenade launchers.

I would go 2 flamers + 2 meltas and meltabombs for maximum flexibility - your squads won't be able to move around so the plasma squad meets the terminators.

Why all the HWT? Aren't you going to assault into enemy territory - then it's better with separate, Heavy support, HWT teams. Or replace some with artillery (that the Renegades get soooo cheap).

You could add Spawns and maybe the cheap gigant spawn LoW Nurgle offers as fast troops/objective grabbers/distraction units.

You make a valid point about the heavy weapons... the new rules changes allow me to advance a unit while leaving the heavy weapons stationary... if I dropped the heavy weapons then i could double my infantry squads though.... I will have to look into this... a part of me just loves the idea of so much dakka.

@Thread: I have built a heartless tyrant list that I'm considering for GT play as well: http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/680074.page