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Hey Dakka,

Although i'm far away i've been reading though my Tau codex to test myself when i get back, powerful in 6th ed i filled my heavy support slot. This was mainly 2 hammerheads (one with longstrike) and a skyray which i would sometimes swap out for broadsides. I never got the riptide more on the fact i knew it would break in transit. I'm tempted by the ghost keel formation, but this means my hammerhead wing may become useless. On top of this i've read theirs a new hammerhead formation but it requires me getting another one.

Is it worth changing my old gun line tactics now?

Should i get "just one more" hammerhead, since i can now group them up and keep my broadsides and skyways now?

Should i invest in the ghostkeel formation or just get a riptide?/ Scrap the old hammerhead fun?

Edited for grammar.

Hammerheads aren't bad, there are just better ways to spend your points. Ghostkeels cost roughly the same number of points, but are more mobile, always has a magnificent cover save that DOESN'T affect it's shooting, and is more durable due to the MC rule. For the same number of points you get two Broadsides. These aren't mobile, but they do have a 2+ armor save, can get a 4+ cover in ruins, and shoot a LOT of str 7. Riptides cost more, but you get t6, a 2+ save, and a 5++ in addition to its other inherent benefits.

These are the reasons with how easy it is to destroy vehicles this edition and you'll understand why Hammerheads are not included in list anymore. Also, gunline tactics are no longer viable in Maelstrom missions as points are earned each turn rather than at the end of the game.

DirtyDeeds wrote:
Hammerheads aren't bad, there are just better ways to spend your points.

This 100%

So I guess the new hammerhead formation isn't really worth it then unless at higher points?

Pretty much what others have said, the Hammerhead just isn't all that good having one shot a turn and not much more. The Skyray and Riptide really outclass it. I was really hoping the new codex would give the Hammerhead a point cost or some options like having two secondary heavy rail rifles, giving it more than one shot a turn and acting like a Predator.

The formation does make them better, as it gives their one shot a lot more of a chance to do something, but it does require three Hammerheads. If it required one less, or let you take two Skyrays and two Hammerheads, it would actually be pretty good. As it stands, it's just a little too much of an investment in my opinion.

Main problem is vehicles are definitely worse this edition compared to MC/GMC

Second, single shot weapons are much worse this edition as well. Weight of fire is much more important to strip hull points away

Why they didn't make the Railgun on the Hammerhead D str I will never understand

 Tinkrr wrote:
Pretty much what others have said, the Hammerhead just isn't all that good having one shot a turn and not much more. The Skyray and Riptide really outclass it. I was really hoping the new codex would give the Hammerhead a point cost or some options like having two secondary heavy rail rifles, giving it more than one shot a turn and acting like a Predator.

The formation does make them better, as it gives their one shot a lot more of a chance to do something, but it does require three Hammerheads. If it required one less, or let you take two Skyrays and two Hammerheads, it would actually be pretty good. As it stands, it's just a little too much of an investment in my opinion.

Alas i'm happy its now in squadrons. it's strange, when i started the Tau the skyway was dreadful and i simply got it for rule of cool. Now it outclasses the hammerhead.

So would it be better to say use in the heavy slot:

Broadsides (X2)

Skyway (X2)

Then use the ghostkeel formation on top of this?

I want to run a 3-strong squadron of ionheads with longstrike. Should be pretty decent.

 tau tse tung wrote:
Hey Dakka,

Although i'm far away i've been reading though my Tau codex to test myself when i get back, powerful in 6th ed i filled my heavy support slot. This was mainly 2 hammerheads (one with longstrike) and a skyray which i would sometimes swap out for broadsides. I never got the riptide more on the fact i knew it would break in transit. I'm tempted by the ghost keel formation, but this means my hammerhead wing may become useless. On top of this i've read theirs a new hammerhead formation but it requires me getting another one.

Is it worth changing my old gun line tactics now?

Should i get "just one more" hammerhead, since i can now group them up and keep my broadsides and skyways now?

Should i invest in the ghostkeel formation or just get a riptide?/ Scrap the old hammerhead fun?

Edited for grammar.

My friend who plays Tau a lot has tried out the Interdiction Cadre abd here is his comment: I'm going to change over to a different formation. Its super powerful and it seems to frustrate my opponents too much. I don't want them to stop playing with me".

I was quite surprised to hear this. I did see some of his games and the Hammerheads did WORK, but I guess i wasn't really paying attention enough to the games overall to realize how much over the course of th rest of the game it was causing.

So for what its worth, though I have not tried it out, my understanding from him is that it's hugely successful. I have the tanks to do it so I suppose i could try it out but I believe him when he describes opponent reactions.

 Jancoran wrote:

 tau tse tung wrote:
Hey Dakka,

Although i'm far away i've been reading though my Tau codex to test myself when i get back, powerful in 6th ed i filled my heavy support slot. This was mainly 2 hammerheads (one with longstrike) and a skyray which i would sometimes swap out for broadsides. I never got the riptide more on the fact i knew it would break in transit. I'm tempted by the ghost keel formation, but this means my hammerhead wing may become useless. On top of this i've read theirs a new hammerhead formation but it requires me getting another one.

Is it worth changing my old gun line tactics now?

Should i get "just one more" hammerhead, since i can now group them up and keep my broadsides and skyways now?

Should i invest in the ghostkeel formation or just get a riptide?/ Scrap the old hammerhead fun?

Edited for grammar.

My friend who plays Tau a lot has tried out the Interdiction Cadre abd here is his comment: I'm going to change over to a different formation. Its super powerful and it seems to frustrate my opponents too much. I don't want them to stop playing with me".

I was quite surprised to hear this. I did see some of his games and the Hammerheads did WORK, but I guess i wasn't really paying attention enough to the games overall to realize how much over the course of th rest of the game it was causing.

So for what its worth, though I have not tried it out, my understanding from him is that it's hugely successful. I have the tanks to do it so I suppose i could try it out but I believe him when he describes opponent reactions.

Well, with Coordinated Firepower and the reroll. they effectively have BS10 when they shoot all at one target. They should never miss.

 Jancoran wrote:

 tau tse tung wrote:
Hey Dakka,

Although i'm far away i've been reading though my Tau codex to test myself when i get back, powerful in 6th ed i filled my heavy support slot. This was mainly 2 hammerheads (one with longstrike) and a skyray which i would sometimes swap out for broadsides. I never got the riptide more on the fact i knew it would break in transit. I'm tempted by the ghost keel formation, but this means my hammerhead wing may become useless. On top of this i've read theirs a new hammerhead formation but it requires me getting another one.

Is it worth changing my old gun line tactics now?

Should i get "just one more" hammerhead, since i can now group them up and keep my broadsides and skyways now?

Should i invest in the ghostkeel formation or just get a riptide?/ Scrap the old hammerhead fun?

Edited for grammar.

My friend who plays Tau a lot has tried out the Interdiction Cadre abd here is his comment: I'm going to change over to a different formation. Its super powerful and it seems to frustrate my opponents too much. I don't want them to stop playing with me".

I was quite surprised to hear this. I did see some of his games and the Hammerheads did WORK, but I guess i wasn't really paying attention enough to the games overall to realize how much over the course of th rest of the game it was causing.

So for what its worth, though I have not tried it out, my understanding from him is that it's hugely successful. I have the tanks to do it so I suppose i could try it out but I believe him when he describes opponent reactions.

Thanks to you're mate for the test then. Well that's given me slightly more confidence in my hammerheads not being a waste of money and plastic now! would it be worth using long strike in that formation?/ can you you take him?

 tau tse tung wrote:

 Jancoran wrote:

 tau tse tung wrote:
Hey Dakka,

Although i'm far away i've been reading though my Tau codex to test myself when i get back, powerful in 6th ed i filled my heavy support slot. This was mainly 2 hammerheads (one with longstrike) and a skyray which i would sometimes swap out for broadsides. I never got the riptide more on the fact i knew it would break in transit. I'm tempted by the ghost keel formation, but this means my hammerhead wing may become useless. On top of this i've read theirs a new hammerhead formation but it requires me getting another one.

Is it worth changing my old gun line tactics now?

Should i get "just one more" hammerhead, since i can now group them up and keep my broadsides and skyways now?

Should i invest in the ghostkeel formation or just get a riptide?/ Scrap the old hammerhead fun?

Edited for grammar.

My friend who plays Tau a lot has tried out the Interdiction Cadre abd here is his comment: I'm going to change over to a different formation. Its super powerful and it seems to frustrate my opponents too much. I don't want them to stop playing with me".

I was quite surprised to hear this. I did see some of his games and the Hammerheads did WORK, but I guess i wasn't really paying attention enough to the games overall to realize how much over the course of th rest of the game it was causing.

So for what its worth, though I have not tried it out, my understanding from him is that it's hugely successful. I have the tanks to do it so I suppose i could try it out but I believe him when he describes opponent reactions.

Thanks to you're mate for the test then. Well that's given me slightly more confidence in my hammerheads not being a waste of money and plastic now! would it be worth using long strike in that formation?/ can you you take him?

Yes you can take him. Now I believe that he is worth it, but he is DEFINITlY worth it if you play with the correct rules of CFP and rules share if they fire at the same target.

Yeah. A lot of pople wont like that too much though so I recommnd discussing it before the game with the opponent and making sure they know what you're planning.

as it is, his experience was that the effectiveness of the Interdiction Cadre was quite off puting to his opponents s it was. Lol.

It's bettr in reality than it looks on paper if you can set the enemy up for the worst of it.

Hammerheads are one of those units i use more because of what the hell it is than its optimum deadlyness. If they had Armor bane i'd say theyre autotake since that pretty much murders vehicles by default, even av14, but it isnt.

Still nowhere near as bad as Vespid, Kroot, or our fliers. I field one regularly, and his effectiveness is pretty bad (4/10 of the time hes actually important to my army, rest hes dead weight) but i still bring it anyway.

Also tempted to try running a full squad of them with Longstrike. 3 Hammerheads at BS5 (Longstrike at BS6) with Pref Enemy IG and Tankhunter ftw (at...495pts rofl)

"Still worth it"?
Even were they ever worth it?

I LOVE hammerheads, and I run 2 to 5 in every list, but let's be honest here, they are not exactly the bees knees.


The only way to make hammers work, is to find what they can do that nothing else does. Because when they compete with someone else, they rarely win.

Bare bones for cheap ion cannons is such an example. Pure AP3 pumping,either blasts for squads or triple shots for MCs /gun emplacements
The missile hammerhead from forgeworld is sort of like a "super broadside". (it has 2 TL missilepods and a VT, so basically a HYMP broadside with a tank body, better mobility and +1bs)
Railheads are amazing in apocalypse games due to pure range finally becoming relevant.


I've learned by now that Dpods are a waste these days,and so are all other upgrades beyond submunitioms, keeping it cheap is better.

Hammerheads are good at being a pie plate launcher with the Ion Cannon and Sub Munitions. What Hammerheads are bad at is doing what they are known for in the fluff which is killing vehicles. BS4 Str 10 AP1 is too unreliable to 1 shot a vehicle. A Hammerhead shooting the front armor of a Battlewagon has roughly a 10% chance to make it explode assuming no cover/invuln. I think a single crisis suit with double fusion has roughly a 25% chance to explode a battlewagon when hitting the front armor (if deep striking your far more likely to be hitting side or rear armor).

Personally I love Hammerheads but their role is more of being an artillery piece than a tank killer. Fusion Crisis are leaps and bounds better than anything else in the Tau codex for killing vehicles (except for the stormsurge but feth that armless battletech ripoff).

 BoomWolf wrote:
"Still worth it"?
Even were they ever worth it?

I LOVE hammerheads, and I run 2 to 5 in every list, but let's be honest here, they are not exactly the bees knees.


Bare bones for cheap ion cannons is such an example. Pure AP3 pumping,either blasts for squads or triple shots for MCs /gun emplacements
The missile hammerhead from forgeworld is sort of like a "super broadside". (it has 2 TL missilepods and a VT, so basically a HYMP broadside with a tank body, better mobility and +1bs)
Railheads are amazing in apocalypse games due to pure range finally becoming relevant.


I've learned by now that Dpods are a waste these days,and so are all other upgrades beyond submunitioms, keeping it cheap is better.

Aye, i'm a big fan too, the sign works well and i'm nostalgic of the force they gave me when i first started playing. I was alreays a railhead fan, think its worth getting the FW stuff then? I'm not sure if the ion cannons worth it when i can just lay down sub shots at infantry.

Considering the forgeworld guns.

Fusion - never. You are paying points for a downgrade compared to rail.

Plasma - short range forces you to get close, and it won't hit very hard. No go.

Missiles - interesting AA option. Competes with skyray but provides a decent alternative if you need consistent AA on skimmer. Basically a buffed up AAside, as while it is mosre expensive, it hits more, more mobile and harder to kill.
Also, enables AAlongstrike for the lulz.

Burst cannons - surprisingly viable. Optional for an enclaves list that lacks horde clearing and don't want squishy hoofs on the ground, The overwatch upgrade really shines on it as it effects the main cannon too. Competes with network drones though, and they are all sorts of awesome. I'd say he is good for "armored spearhead" type lists horde clearing tools. (yaknow, when everything is a tank so anti tank tools are overloaded)

Haha of course, when i was playing lots of 'kids i'd love that burst cannon. I remember when the skyray in 5th had no skyfire, i guess the misslehead was for those days, i love the model though. Would that be worth running in the formation?!

£Edit, it's been a while since i was last on fw, i see they got removed :(.

Actually, the missilehead had totally different rules back then, and was not an AA unit at all, but an impractical AoE shooter.

Anyway, the MODEL got removed (as it didn't sell), but the rules are in IA13, and you can convert your own with relative ease.

Putting it in the formation though, doubt it. the missilehead have TL on all it's guns already, so the formation has no effect on them. so you take formation restrictions to no gain.

I tend to take the turrent off of the one I own and proxy as another devilfish when needed... other than that stays on the shelf at home or in box as store

I have run the interdiction and I would say that hammerheads within that formation are definitely viable.

What I ran was:
x3 railheads, subs, longstrike
HH with FW heavy burst cannons, overwatch option
HH with FW heavy burst cannons, overwatch option
skyray

This was expensive, but not TOO expensive, everything had D-pods for deepstrike armies. the 12" bubble of twin linked is suprisingly versatile, longstrike and friends were hyper accurate antitank (bs5/6, TL is silly) still had good anti-hoard with TL subs, and the burstheads were cleaning up pretty much whatever they fired at with 16 S5 shots each. Skyray was there for some alpha strike missile barrage, or anti air and then was just a marker platform or hide and SMS platform.

Overall I liked the formation a lot, gave me some HH love again, and with the TL, the units require far less markers if they need to jink

Yeah the Interdiction Cadre is what is scary about them, just as in the case of Riptide Wing. My friend swears by it to the point that he's dropping it like i said to be more friendly.

I myself think the Hammerhead needed something. I haven't taken a hammerhead in my force in ten years. And Tau Empire has been my first and truest love, so this is saying something. i ove six hammerheads...and two more on Sprue. And I dont play them. Sigh.

i only have 1 hammerhead and a 2nd on sprues i plan to do some fancy lighting stuff with when im not on the verge of moving. Would love to get my hands on at least 1 more but its not a major demand.

I own three, Tau skimmers along with the aesthetics of the fire Warriors were what attracted me to Tau back in the day (3rd ed).

Now days I run them as Skyrays, but I'll have to try proxy the formation someday. Doesn't look too great on paper, a 6 inch radius every turn for re-rolls ain't massive. But if it works, I'll give it a go! The hammerhead is an iconic tau unit in my mind.

Hammerheads haven't really been worth it since the last edition of the codex, but the advent of the Tidewall Gunfort formation nailed that coffin shut in spectacular fashion. That said, they're pretty cool models and are at least somewhat functional, so taking them for the coolness won't totally drag your list down. Just don't expect to see them in any successful tournament lists.

 gameandwatch wrote:
I have run the interdiction and I would say that hammerheads within that formation are definitely viable.

What I ran was:
x3 railheads, subs, longstrike
HH with FW heavy burst cannons, overwatch option
HH with FW heavy burst cannons, overwatch option
skyray

This was expensive, but not TOO expensive, everything had D-pods for deepstrike armies. the 12" bubble of twin linked is suprisingly versatile, longstrike and friends were hyper accurate antitank (bs5/6, TL is silly) still had good anti-hoard with TL subs, and the burstheads were cleaning up pretty much whatever they fired at with 16 S5 shots each. Skyray was there for some alpha strike missile barrage, or anti air and then was just a marker platform or hide and SMS platform.

Overall I liked the formation a lot, gave me some HH love again, and with the TL, the units require far less markers if they need to jink

Why burst cannons? Sms cost no additional points, but have a greater range, ignore cover, and ignore line of sight.

Keyword "heavy" burst cannons. Theyre not bursts, theyre forgeworld addons replacing the top turret gun not the drone-slot guns.

Normally forgeworld stuff isnt allowed in a formation, but its not a new unit its options for an existing unit. Loophole! And afaik the only one people might even consider at all lol.

And actually theyre called "long barreled burst cannons" unless hes looking in a book i dont know about. IA3 2nd doesnt have a heavy burst cannon in it. Long barrels are 36" S5 AP5 6 shots. Considering the overwatch upgrade only lets you fire S5 or less weapons, thats actually pretty smart.

i think I'm going to get one more the, that formation looks look and their a dream to build and paint, plus it's a little different from the riptide people are seeing right now. Even when i see players now its just all suits, sure their good but as everyones saying, is "classic" tau. Also another skyray that comes with the kit is always welcome.