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Hi everyone! I'm just getting into the game and would really love some help with this list. I love the Tzeentch fluff/aesthetic so I wanted to stick to that and work on my own fluffy backstory for the army. I tried to start by picking my favorite models and then figure out how to make them work together. Ultimately I want a fluffy and fun list, but hopefully something that is also competitive in a casual environment, because getting smashed every time will get old really fast. I know Daemons can be tricky for a first army, but I'm fine with a steep learning curve as long as I can eventually learn to hold my own. Thanks!

1850

PRIMARY DETACHMENT - 1162
<<HQ>> 255
Chaos Sorcerer - Disc of Tzeentch, Level 2 Mastery, Spell Familiar
Warpsmith - Plasma Pistol

<<TROOPS>> 477
x9 Thousand Sons - Rhino
x10 Chaos Space Marines - Rhino, Melta Bombs, x2 Meltaguns

<<ELITES>> 230
Helbrute - Plasma Cannon
Helbrute - Power Scourge

<<HEAVY SUPPORT>> 200
Forgefiend - Ectoplasma Cannon

ALLIED DETACHMENT - 688
<<HQ>> 120
Herald of Tzeentch - Disc of Tzeentch, Level 2 Mastery, Locus of Conjuration

<<TROOPS>> 208
X11 Pink Horrors
X11 Pink Horrors (DS) - Instrument of Chaos

<<FAST ATTACK>> 200
x4 Screamers
x4 Screamers

<<HEAVY SUPPORT>> 160
Soul Grinder (DS) - Demon of Tzeentch , Baleful Torrent

Your points are off a bit, remember to take a disc of tzeentch you have to have the mark as well.Also your helbrute points seem off remember they where FAQ'ed down base point level. I have you at 1855.

There are a few things i would do. Run the screamers as one 7 man unit. 4 will die to fast and not due enough damage.

I am not a big fan of Warpsmiths. Rhinos are so cheap and have their own repair rolls that I have never needed to use one. I think a Lord with MoT, SoC and a PF would be more benificial

Also not sure why you are running 11 Horrors. If thats what you have and want to run them got it, but i would run 10 in each to save some pints.

Take out the screemer and the 2 Horrors, use a Lord vice the warpsmith and you will have enough pints left to give the CSM MoT.

Son of aY3ti wrote:

Also not sure why you are running 11 Horrors. If thats what you have and want to run them got it, but i would run 10 in each to save some pints.

Horrors generate 1 WC if they number 1-10 models, 2 WC if they're 11-15, or 3 WC if they're 16-20 models. Starting with 11 models in the squad means that they'll be generating additional charges until they begin to take casualties. Really, 9 points for a Warp Charge/turn is about as cheap as you'll ever get it.

As for the actual list. There are a few things in there that I think are simply downright bad and not worth taking, and also a few things that are amazing and you've not picked. Perhaps it was aesthetics that led you to these choices and if that's the case, please ignore this advice. That having been said, here's what I'd suggest:

Sorcerer needs Mark of Tzeentch, or change his Disc to a Bike. I'd probably give him mastery level 3 as well. You also should specify what type of Force Weapon he has -axe/sword/mace etc.
Warpsmith is pretty garbage and should be dropped entirely.
Thousand Sons are unfortunately pretty bad. I'd replace them with another squad of marines in a Rhino or some cultists to free up points.
Helbrutes are some of the worst units in the CSM list. They're like bad Dreadnoughts that don't follow your instructions a good chunk of the time. They also pack pathetic firepower for their cost while also not being very durable.
Forgefiends suffer in the same was a Helbrutes with high cost, middling durability and limited damage output.

Some units that are strong - Heldrakes, Bikers, Spawn, Maulers (kinda), Oblits (kinda).
All of these units are potentially Tzeentchy in their own way, Spawn especially so, and form the backbone of most effective CSM lists. Unfortunately for the CSM, they're already bottom of the pile, so picking poor choices from a weak book with leave you getting stomped even in the fluffiest of environments. You can get away with spamming the most "OP" CSM units and you'll still not come close to matching the power of a "fluffly" Eldar or Tau list. Perhaps consider these units as well to some degree to give yourself a actual chance of winning.

Daemon allies are fine - probably drop the Locus from the Herald and get an extra mastery level instead. Make the screamers into a single unit of 8 (seeing as the "herald" can be easily converted from a Horror riding a Screamer). The soulgrinder is better than almost all of the CSM walkers, so perhaps consider using more grinders instead of the Brutes and Fiends.

Pretty good advice in here. The Thousand Sons aren't baaadd but they are expensive. If you want them then take a min unit of 5 since the best part of them is the aspiring sorcerer. If he rolls Doom Bolt it's a pretty solid unit, but otherwise it has its uses but fairly limited. 9 guys is just too many points lost.

As stated, Helbrutes are unfortunately just awful. If you really want to take them, put them in the Helbrute formation called the "Mayhem Pack" which means you have to take 3, but they get to Deep Strike.

Forgefiend is a lot of points, not worth it even though it looks really sweet. I love the Maulerfiend variant, I almost always run 2 of them. Just use them as heat-seeking missiles and send them out. If they die they're cheap enough, but they'll take a lot of abuse usually before they go down.

The sorcerer on a disc has no escort, so I don't see the point. If you want him on a Disc then give him a spawn unit to keep him safe and give him Fearless too.

And definitely combine the screamers into a big unit. Consider getting an Exalted Reward on your Herald for the Grimoire of True names to make them super durable.

Thanks so much for your feedback! It's a shame the helbrutes and warpsmith are so crappy because i really love those models. However, ditching them freed up a lot of points to add some stronger units i really like the look of. Also, I realized i can just run a maulerfiend when in battle and still have all the fun of painting the forgefiend. The freed up points also allowed me to swap the herald with one of my absolute favorite models (lord of change) and hopefully replace some of the assault power i wanted from the helbrutes. This heavily edited list takes into account of lot of your recommendations but still holds on to my desired aesthetic. Thoughts?

PRIMARY DETACHMENT - 1001

<<HQ>> 155

Chaos Sorcerer
Mark of Tzeentch
Disc of Tzeentch
Level 3 Mastery
Spell Familiar

<<TROOPS>> 405

x5 Thousand Sons
Rhino

x10 Chaos Space Marines
Mark of Tzeentch
Rhino
Melta Bombs
x2 Meltaguns

<<FAST ATTACK>> 306
x4 Chaos Spawn
Mark of Tzeentch

Heldrake

<<HEAVY SUPPORT>> 135
Maulerfiend
Lasher Tendrils

ALLIED DETACHMENT - 848

<<HQ>> 305
Lord of Change
Exalted Reward
2x Lesser Reward
Mastery Level 3

<<TROOPS>> 208
X11 Pink Horrors

X11 Pink Horrors (DS)
Instrument of Chaos

<<FAST ATTACK>> 175
x7 Screamers

<<HEAVY SUPPORT>> 160
Soul Grinder (DS)
Demon of Tzeentch
Baleful Torrent

Total: 1849

Looks pretty good. One idea you might tinker with is removing the Exalted Reward on the LOC and giving him Paradox, which is a new relic for Daemons that just came out in the Curse of the Wulfen book. It lets the caster flip his psychic dice once per phase on a cast. So that means if you throw 5 dice down and you only get 2 successes, you could flip it so the successes become failures and vice versa so you have 3 successes! It guarantees a WC3 power (like summoning) can be cast on 5 dice. It's only 25 points too, not bad.