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2016/02/16 22:49:59
Subject: US Marshals arresting people defaulting on student loans and failing to appear in court.
Bad boys! Bad boys! Whatcha gonna do? What'cha gonna do when they come for you?
So, it seems that the Fed is turning over student loan collections to private companies. When those private companies can't collect, guess what. They call the cops - specifically the US Marshals.
Isiah Carey wrote:US Marshals arresting people for not paying their federal student loans
HOUSTON (FOX 26) - Believe it or not, the US Marshals Service in Houston is arresting people for not paying their outstanding federal student loans.
Paul Aker says he was arrested at his home last week for a $1500 federal student loan he received in 1987.
He says seven deputy US Marshals showed up at his home with guns and took him to federal court where he had to sign a payment plan for the 29-year-old school loan.
Congressman Gene Green says the federal government is now using private debt collectors to go after those who owe student loans.
Green says as a result, those attorneys and debt collectors are getting judgments in federal court and asking judges to use the US Marshals Service to arrest those who have failed to pay their federal student loans.
Our reliable source with the US Marshal in Houston say Aker isn't the first and won't be the last.
They have to serve anywhere from 1200 to 1500 warrants to people who have failed to pay their federal student loans.
Edit: Title updated as more info has been published in the media.
Another article in the NY Daily News has more on Aker's story.
The headline is a bit misleading. While the root cause of the arrest is the failure to pay the loan, the article really skims over the "due process" between that and being arrested.
So lets say you default on your federally subsidized loan. The Feds will eventually turn the account over to a collection agency, because that's all creditors do when they can't get the cash from a person. The creditor no doubt tried to collect, and after multiple failures, filed a suit in Federal court. The borrower failed to appear and/or respond, and eventually, the creditor wins a default judgment, which is just another document saying that the borrower owes the creditor money. However, this is a writ that allows the creditor to use more pressure to get the cash. I'm guessing the borrower had tax returns to put liens on or income to garnish, so they went right to the Marshals.
It is, admittedly, a bit silly, but so is avoiding paying off $1500 in loans for 29 years.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Silent Puffin? wrote: I wonder how much that all cost? I guarantee it was far more than $1500.
Probably, but failure to pay a judicially ordered debt is a big deal, regardless of the size. It's not the amount, its the refusal to respond that got him in trouble.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/02/16 23:03:31
2016/02/16 23:05:53
Subject: US Marshals arresting people defaulting on student loans
Admittedly, this particular case is pretty ridiculous.
But, eventually, if you don't pay your loans back, there should and will be repercussions, so I'm not sure why it's so shocking when police are called in when people break the law.
"Hope is the first step on the road to disappointment." Words to live by.
2016/02/17 00:12:51
Subject: US Marshals arresting people defaulting on student loans
So the return of debtors prison, yeeha. Can they also arrest the people who told others that a college degree would be enough so they should take out loans when really it didn't and that they probably shouldn't? Well at least people in a bad spot can continue to build debt, because initial debt wasn't enough, then they can be tossed in prison which also won't pay the loan. Students really are the future of privatized law enforcement.
Amidst the mists and coldest frosts he thrusts his fists against the posts and still insists he sees the ghosts.
2016/02/17 00:13:59
Subject: US Marshals arresting people defaulting on student loans
I read this story and I definitely feel like there is something that isn't getting reported here. Were there no tax refunds in all that time to garnish, no real property to put a lien on or something else? All the stories I read all had the same sketchy details.
Polonius wrote: Probably, but failure to pay a judicially ordered debt is a big deal, regardless of the size. It's not the amount, its the refusal to respond that got him in trouble.
"Dura lex, sed lex" always seemed to me like a cop-out for bad governance. Sure, principle is important, but it should be tempered by common sense.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/02/17 00:14:50
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2016/02/17 00:15:06
Subject: US Marshals arresting people defaulting on student loans
Breotan wrote: Bad boys! Bad boys! Whatcha gonna do? What'cha gonna do when they come for you?
So, it seems that the Fed is turning over student loan collections to private companies. When those private companies can't collect, guess what. They call the cops - specifically the US Marshals.
As I explained to you in the alligator drive-by thread, US Marshals often are the ones called upon to serve warrants. Part of their mandate is to apprehend fugitives or to serve outstanding warrants.
Not sure why it's such a shock that they're doing their job?
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/02/17 00:15:28
2016/02/17 00:16:21
Subject: US Marshals arresting people defaulting on student loans
Any private party can take another private party to court so that a judge can oversee the process to determine if a case has merit and then declare a judgement. After a judgement has been declared, the private party can ask the officers of the court to execute that judgement and serve it to the party against whom the judgement has been rendered. It doesn't matter if it's a court officer at the city, a county sheriff, or a federal marshal, because they all do the exact same jobs for their respective courts.
I know it makes for a fun headline and story to pretend that a federal bureaucrat in an office somewhere decided to go mad with statutory power and then called upon his private army of jackbooted fedcoats to take on the citizenry of this nation to drag them to jail in order to take their private property. But this is a simple procedural move that is the result of a judgement rendered between two private parties, neither of which are the government.
2016/02/17 01:15:18
Subject: US Marshals arresting people defaulting on student loans
d-usa wrote: I know it makes for a fun headline and story to pretend that a federal bureaucrat in an office somewhere decided to go mad with statutory power and then...
I didn't get this impression from either the article or its headline. In fact, I really don't see those dots being drawn except by you.
If anything the article seemed more like a warning, "Pay off your loans because the Fed is serious about collecting."
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/02/17 01:22:16
2016/02/17 01:31:47
Subject: US Marshals arresting people defaulting on student loans
It’s a shame political interests tried to turn this in to yet another bit of anti-government silliness, because there’s actually a useful lesson in this for everyone – if you owe someone money then please respond to the other party and deal with it, instead of letting it escalate.
My finance team deals with this all the time. On our books right now we’ve got unpaid student fees of about $3 million, and at a fairly broad guess I’d say about a 20% of that will end up with collection agencies just because so many people ignore our every effort we make to contact them. The amounts are often very trivial, $500 or less, and we’ll take payment plans as little as $50 a month as a matter of course, and have gone as low as $10 a month. In some cases we’ve wiped some or even all of the debt.
But we can only do those things if people actually call us. The ones who don’t will eventually get farmed out to collection agencies, who will also take pretty generous payment plans if only the debtor contacts them. Collection agencies are more effective at getting contact, because that’s their job, but even then so many people let things escalate it is just crazy.
“We may observe that the government in a civilized country is much more expensive than in a barbarous one; and when we say that one government is more expensive than another, it is the same as if we said that that one country is farther advanced in improvement than another. To say that the government is expensive and the people not oppressed is to say that the people are rich.”
Adam Smith, who must have been some kind of leftie or something.
2016/02/17 02:14:42
Subject: Re:US Marshals arresting people defaulting on student loans
sebster wrote: It’s a shame political interests tried to turn this in to yet another bit of anti-government silliness, because there’s actually a useful lesson in this for everyone – if you owe someone money then please respond to the other party and deal with it, instead of letting it escalate.
My finance team deals with this all the time. On our books right now we’ve got unpaid student fees of about $3 million, and at a fairly broad guess I’d say about a 20% of that will end up with collection agencies just because so many people ignore our every effort we make to contact them. The amounts are often very trivial, $500 or less, and we’ll take payment plans as little as $50 a month as a matter of course, and have gone as low as $10 a month. In some cases we’ve wiped some or even all of the debt.
But we can only do those things if people actually call us. The ones who don’t will eventually get farmed out to collection agencies, who will also take pretty generous payment plans if only the debtor contacts them. Collection agencies are more effective at getting contact, because that’s their job, but even then so many people let things escalate it is just crazy.
That's how it generally works with Healthcare here... if your insurance doesn't cover it. THat happened to me when my first spawn was born. We still had $1800 left over... so, I called them and they simply put me on a $50/mo pmt plan with no interest. They even sent us the bill with return envelope.
Live Ork, Be Ork. or D'Ork!
2016/02/17 02:29:55
Subject: US Marshals arresting people defaulting on student loans
In the past I have dealt with creditors in a very hostile manner, if I even acknowledged them at all. At some point in my life I realized that my debt is nobody's fault except my own.
Once I realized that, it changed the way I talked to folks trying to collect the money I owed. And as a result it changed the way they talked to me.
A few years ago I made a big screwup on my federal taxes and only reported 2/3rds of my income (federal payroll processor changed, so I had two W2s for a single job and didn't realize it and only filed one of them). I got the big tax bill with the "pay or there will be tax liens against you" message as a result. I called the IRS, got through to someone, and after some small talk and explaining the mistake to someone who also had their payroll switched that same year, I got put on a payment plan with the penalties waived.
Yes, debt collectors can be the scum of the earth. But it's not their fault I have my debts and there is nothing gained by me being an ass to them. So now I'm always nice when I call them, wish them a good day and thank them for their help and patience, and try to make it clear that I'm trying to take responsibility for my past mistakes. And sometimes, these people have the means to help you and give you a break, but you have to make them like you enough to even consider it. And if I was in their shoes I wouldn't go out of my way to help someone that is being an ass when calling them.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2016/02/17 02:36:57
2016/02/17 02:31:56
Subject: US Marshals arresting people defaulting on student loans
Regardless, the notion that the government is a kinder and gentler debt collector than the private sector is amusing.
My notion is that the government shouldn't outsource the management of government loans to private companies (something it currently does with student loans). If the government outsourced collection to a debt collector, that's something I don't really have issue with. The OP article doesn't state what kind of company got this writ in court, and I'll admit I just assumed it was someone like Navient (who is currently facing charges that they've violated consumer protection laws in their management of federal loans)..
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/02/17 02:42:36
Sooo debtor prison, shooting people on the street for fun, refusing to give people health care and when asked to, take a panic attack.... my god how many of these things need to get checked off before it is a second or third world country?
OH and trying to send hundreds if not thousands of kids into the wild of mexico because they are evil monsters, terror babies.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/02/17 03:24:57
I need to go to work every day.
Millions of people on welfare depend on me.
2016/02/17 03:35:44
Subject: Re:US Marshals arresting people defaulting on student loans
sebster wrote: It’s a shame political interests tried to turn this in to yet another bit of anti-government silliness, because there’s actually a useful lesson in this for everyone – if you owe someone money then please respond to the other party and deal with it, instead of letting it escalate.
Well, to be fair, we had some of our own folks trying to turn it into anti-private sector silliness.
2016/02/17 03:37:14
Subject: US Marshals arresting people defaulting on student loans
Back in November 2007, Aker was sued by the federal government for nonpayment of more than $2,600 in unpaid federal student loan debt, according to documents from the U.S. District Court for the Southern District of Texas (embedded below). The court record shows that Aker, listed as Winford P. Aker in the complaint, did not appear in court to answer the lawsuit and, as is common when student loan borrowers fail to appear, the presiding judge ruled against him and ordered Aker to pay the full balance on April 17, 2007.
According to a statement from the U.S. Marshals Service, Aker repeatedly refused to show up in court after being contacted several times. Disobeying a court order is a criminal offense. Within a few months, the judge issued a warrant for his arrest, which the U.S. Marshals carried out. So, yes, Aker was arrested, but not just because he owed a little student loan debt. He was arrested for disobeying a court order.
The Marshals statement goes on to describe the arrest, saying Aker "resisted arrest and retreated back into his home" when agents arrived:
"The situation escalated when Aker verbally said to the deputies that he had a gun. After Aker made the statement that he was armed, in order to protect everyone involved, the deputies requested additional law enforcement assistance. Additional deputy marshals and local law enforcement officers responded to the scene. After approximately two hours, the law enforcement officers convinced Aker to peacefully exit his home, and he was arrested."
In the end, Aker went to court and was released. As far as we know, he did not spend any time in jail. Aker claims he was never notified about the order and that could very well be true. His address listed on the complaint is different than the only listing for a "Winford P. Aker" Yahoo Finance found in the Houston area. His court summons may have been sent to an old address (efforts to reach Aker were unsuccessful). However, the U.S. Marshals Service maintains they made every effort to track him down, "including searching at numerous known addresses."
It’s not clear why it took the Marshals more than three years to track him down, but the fact is he was arrested for failure to appear in court — not for his unpaid debt alone.
2016/02/17 03:55:03
Subject: US Marshals arresting people defaulting on student loans
Ahtman wrote: So the return of debtors prison, yeeha. Can they also arrest the people who told others that a college degree would be enough so they should take out loans when really it didn't and that they probably shouldn't? Well at least people in a bad spot can continue to build debt, because initial debt wasn't enough, then they can be tossed in prison which also won't pay the loan. Students really are the future of privatized law enforcement.
I wonder if they're getting them on fraud charges? I confess I really don't know the law in regards to this situation. As was asked earlier, why weren't wages and tax refunds garnished?
2016/02/17 04:12:26
Subject: US Marshals arresting people defaulting on student loans
It is stupid anyways the knowledge they gain in said school helps the country keep up to date. To start limiting school is just a way to make sure the poor can't compete and then get worse jobs earn less money. It is a slow form of removing middle class and segregation.
Keep the people stupid so they do not know better and then make them turn on each other while we widdle away the weakest.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/02/17 04:13:43
I need to go to work every day.
Millions of people on welfare depend on me.
2016/02/17 04:17:16
Subject: US Marshals arresting people defaulting on student loans
Relapse wrote: I wonder if they're getting them on fraud charges? I confess I really don't know the law in regards to this situation. As was asked earlier, why weren't wages and tax refunds garnished?
I think that would probably require a person to turn up to court, so marshalls can establish your place of work and then arrange your employer to garnish some portion of your wage.
“We may observe that the government in a civilized country is much more expensive than in a barbarous one; and when we say that one government is more expensive than another, it is the same as if we said that that one country is farther advanced in improvement than another. To say that the government is expensive and the people not oppressed is to say that the people are rich.”
Adam Smith, who must have been some kind of leftie or something.
