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So with the new Wulfen book comes new builds for Daemons including Khorne Murderhorde. The question I am curious about is if the benefits of Murderhorde (holding objectives better, modify warp storm table and re-roll instability) outweigh the benefits of taking a KDK list and the blood tithe table.
Lets face it for most lists its one or the other because going with murderhorde is a 1k point investment pretty much. Obviously the benefits seem better then KDK table but your more limited in the units you can take and the attaching auxilary formations are points heavy too.
Are people with KDK lists planning to switch to murderhorde? I'm leaning towards KDK so I can still have some anti air in my lists (helldrake). Thoughts?
Assuming you're talking about the Daemonic Incursion formation using a Murderhorde, Bloodthirster and some other Auxiliary..
Benefits of Murderhorde:
- Nearly always +1 attack, and probably rage or hatred too if near the Herald
- Better upgrade options for Heralds and Princes
- More diverse options with Daemons
- Better access to buffs
Cons of Murderhorde
- Instability (even with re-rolls)
- Warp Storm table (even with adjustment)
- Big tax to take any of the required formations (all around 500 points)
Benefits of KDK - Fearless. You don't realize how much better this is than instability until you play.
- Blood Tithe - allows benefits like army-wide FNP, summoning without spending dice.
- More diverse shooting support (Helldrakes, Forgefiends, Obliterators, Melta bikes)
- more flexible formations (Slaughtercult + Gorepack, or Gorepack + CAD) vs Daemonic Incursion
- Helldrakes =D
Cons of KDK - Only Khorne
- Limited gift/upgrade options.
- No defensive buffs like Cursed Earth, Grimoire, Invisibility, Endurance...
...
If you want to go Khorne only, then KDK I think is a no-brainer.
If you're ok with other gods, then its a bit of a toss up. Fearless + FNP every turn is *really* good.
As a Daemons player that has recently switched to Daemonkin... I might give the Murderhorde + CAD a go. I doubt I'll be using the Daemonic Incursion detachment as I find the tax units just too large.
Trasvi wrote: Assuming you're talking about the Daemonic Incursion formation using a Murderhorde, Bloodthirster and some other Auxiliary..
Spoiler:
Benefits of Murderhorde:
- Nearly always +1 attack, and probably rage or hatred too if near the Herald
- Better upgrade options for Heralds and Princes
- More diverse options with Daemons
- Better access to buffs
Cons of Murderhorde
- Instability (even with re-rolls)
- Warp Storm table (even with adjustment)
- Big tax to take any of the required formations (all around 500 points)
Benefits of KDK - Fearless. You don't realize how much better this is than instability until you play.
- Blood Tithe - allows benefits like army-wide FNP, summoning without spending dice.
- More diverse shooting support (Helldrakes, Forgefiends, Obliterators, Melta bikes)
- more flexible formations (Slaughtercult + Gorepack, or Gorepack + CAD) vs Daemonic Incursion
- Helldrakes =D
Cons of KDK - Only Khorne
- Limited gift/upgrade options.
- No defensive buffs like Cursed Earth, Grimoire, Invisibility, Endurance...
...
If you want to go Khorne only, then KDK I think is a no-brainer.
If you're ok with other gods, then its a bit of a toss up. Fearless + FNP every turn is *really* good.
As a Daemons player that has recently switched to Daemonkin... I might give the Murderhorde + CAD a go. I doubt I'll be using the Daemonic Incursion detachment as I find the tax units just too large.
I agree with everything you said. Fearless is LOADS better than Instability, because you don't cause yourself wounds. Really, the only thing KDK hurts for is pysker support, which can be added through allies if you are truly desperate for it. The summoning from the Blood Tithe table is pretty subpar, but when using a Slaughtercult it becomes insanely easy to maintain FNP on your entire army each turn, which is just great. Having FNP army wide just makes your entire army extremely durable. All those cultists, in cover (going to ground if needed), with FNP make for quite an inexpensive objective-taker. You really get the best units from the CSM codex (Heldrakes, Maulerfiends, Cultists) to add to an extremely aggressive daemon list.
Trasvi wrote: Assuming you're talking about the Daemonic Incursion formation using a Murderhorde, Bloodthirster and some other Auxiliary..
...
Benefits of KDK - Fearless. You don't realize how much better this is than instability until you play.
- Blood Tithe - allows benefits like army-wide FNP, summoning without spending dice.
- More diverse shooting support (Helldrakes, Forgefiends, Obliterators, Melta bikes)
- more flexible formations (Slaughtercult + Gorepack, or Gorepack + CAD) vs Daemonic Incursion
- Helldrakes =D
Minor correction. KDK don´t have Obliterators. But I can pretty much agree with everything else.
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2016/02/17 08:49:27
stealth992 wrote: ...
Or you can just keep buying chaos everything, and not play them. Just sit alone in your room for years, painting and detailing, and detailing some more. Then keep doing that for years until you own upwards of 10000 points of chaos. Keep shining their swords and sharpening their knives. Then some day, some wonderful day, when a new book comes out that will realize your armies' potential, come out from hiding. Everyone will have thought you had left warhammer 40k for good, but no, you had been training, preparing, and brooding for this moment. Return with such vengeance and hatred that you will not hold back, and you will destroy everything in your path. Like a true chaos crusade, wait for the right moment, then burst forth from the Eye of Terror and unleash your pain on the whole universe. And when they cry and complain that you are OP and that it's not fair. Reassure them that it's true. It isn't fair, but it's what they DESERVE. All of them, each and every one of them deserve to be obliterated into oblivion. And if they ask you to play with a fluffy army, tell them you will do so. But on game day bring the meanest nastiest, ugliest army you can. Give them no opportunity for victory, give them no opportunity for enjoyment. Your only goal is to inflict as much pain and suffering as possible. And when they cry, and they will cry, laugh at them, drink their salty tears, and bath in their sweet, sweet blood.
