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My Chaos Space Marine army (Im new) is going to be versus someone using Grey Knights
It'll be a 500 pts battle and I suspect, due to the points, he will be using a HQ, Nemesis Dreadknight and a Terminator squad.
Ive got the idea to use:
1 Chaos Lord - SoC, MoT, Black Mace for great attack and invul rolls
5 Terminators (Fallen Angels)
1 Chaos Sorcerer - Spell Familiar, MoN (MoN to attempt to "Gets hot!" the enemy weaponry
10 Fallen Angels (1 Leader)
1 Helbrute

Should bring the cost up to around 550, unless I forgot to include something

Any tips and (non-destructive) criticism are welcome


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Eventually I will expand to ~1000/1500, this is just a friendly, and small, match

As the warlord I would take Kharn, whilst not always good his 2+ to deny the witch works wonders against an army which relies on psychic powers AND he is immune to instant death from force weapons. Also he isn't too bad in close combat.

Thanks for the info, but won't he just immediately get shot to death by the terminators before he can even reach them?

Why not put him in with your fallen angels?


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Just place him wherever you were going to put you sorceror.

I was eventually going to do this
Chaos Lord/Sorcerer and Kharn/Typhus/Ahriman
10 Chaos space marines + Aspiring Champ
9 Fallen Angels + Fallen Angel leader
4 Fallen Angel Terminators + Fallen Angel Terminator leader
2 Fallen Angel Bikers + Fallen Angel Biker leader
18 Chaos Cultists (9 ranked, 9 melee with some pistols) + 2 Chaos Cultist leaders (one with shotgun)
1 Helbrute
5 Warp Talons or raptors

How does this list look for 1000-1500 points?

I'm by the way trying to be as €-efficient as possible, so no Heavy Supports, Heldrakes, etc.
I prefer the way CSM work anyway.
Some shots but mostly up close and personal.

You don't really have a lot of anti-armour in that list, I would think about taking some kind of allied force of renegade tanks or maybe even a chaos knight at 1000+ points. The CSM codex does not have many point effective anti tank units.

But besides that you have a good model count and should be able to deal with most none vehicle units.

Alright, thanks.
I'll look into it

Most of Gk psychic powers are buffs, so kharns 2+ won't help. If he takes that list, most of his cc attacks and ranged will be wounding on 2's even with Mon. I'd probably go for bikers with melta guns, havocs and obliterators. Gk don't have much range beyond 24", so you can shoot them from a distance. They are also quite slow, so you can out maneuver them. Spawn are good to create distractions and pull units out of position, and are cheap. Avoid anything with the daemon rule.

Vinicators will be a blessing, especially two.

 JamesY wrote:
Most of Gk psychic powers are buffs, so kharns 2+ won't help. If he takes that list, most of his cc attacks and ranged will be wounding on 2's even with Mon. I'd probably go for bikers with melta guns, havocs and obliterators. Gk don't have much range beyond 24", so you can shoot them from a distance. They are also quite slow, so you can out maneuver them. Spawn are good to create distractions and pull units out of position, and are cheap. Avoid anything with the daemon rule.

Vinicators will be a blessing, especially two.

That's around €74-80 for just one vindicator, 5 havocs and 3 obliterators

I'm using the Dark Vengeance set for the Fallen Angels and Chaos Spare Marines (Not because I think the Dark Vengeance set is cheaper than buying actualy Chaos counterparts for the Dark Angels, it's because I like the Fallen Angel fluff and I'd like to base my army on said Fallen Angels)

Dark Vengeance + 10 Chaos Space Marines lands me at about €93
To add €80 to this right now is not preferred


Thanks for the advice though


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So should it be something like this then?
Chaos Lord/Sorcerer and Kharn/Typhus/Ahriman
10 Chaos space marines + Aspiring Champ
9 Fallen Angels + Fallen Angel leader
4 Fallen Angel Terminators + Fallen Angel Terminator leader
2 Fallen Angel Bikers + Fallen Angel Biker leader
18 Chaos Cultists (9 ranked, 9 melee with some pistols) + 2 Chaos Cultist leaders (one with shotgun)
1 Helbrute
5 Havocs

This does, however, mean that my group consists of nearly all slow types of Troops

 JamesY wrote:
Most of Gk psychic powers are buffs, so kharns 2+ won't help.

It depends on who you ask. Many people, like yourself, say that kharn's 2+ cannot be used against blessings. However if you read the wording of the rules the DTW goes like this:
"Follow the same process, but apply no modifiers to your dice"
This means you select one of your units to deny the witch, in this case kharn, but add no modifiers to the dice. Kharn DTW on a 2+: this is not a modifier, a modifier would be +1 or -1 to rolls, this is simply choosing more of the dice. Therefore, I am sure you can see why some of us still use the 2+ for blessings.
I believe BoLS did an article about these kind of rules and they concluded, as they weren't technically modifiers, they could be used against blessings.

OP, if you wish to use Kharn I would first clear this with the person you are playing as some people don't like it, personally me and my friends have agreed this is how the rule should be played.

Of course if there was an FAQ I am unaware of where GW ruled it cannot be used against blessings I shall retract my statement.

 mrhappyface wrote:

 JamesY wrote:
Most of Gk psychic powers are buffs, so kharns 2+ won't help.

It depends on who you ask. Many people, like yourself, say that kharn's 2+ cannot be used against blessings. However if you read the wording of the rules the DTW goes like this:
"Follow the same process, but apply no modifiers to your dice"
This means you select one of your units to deny the witch, in this case kharn, but add no modifiers to the dice. Kharn DTW on a 2+: this is not a modifier, a modifier would be +1 or -1 to rolls, this is simply choosing more of the dice. Therefore, I am sure you can see why some of us still use the 2+ for blessings.
I believe BoLS did an article about these kind of rules and they concluded, as they weren't technically modifiers, they could be used against blessings.

OP, if you wish to use Kharn I would first clear this with the person you are playing as some people don't like it, personally me and my friends have agreed this is how the rule should be played.

Of course if there was an FAQ I am unaware of where GW ruled it cannot be used against blessings I shall retract my statement.

No FAQ needed, you, and by the sounds of it bols have simply mis-read the steps. No where does it say that you select a unit to make the roll, you make it as the player if the power wasn't targeting one of your units. When it says to follow the same process, it is referring to cancelling out the warp charges harnessed. Absolutely nowhere does it say that you select a unit to make the denial role. Because of that, technically modifiers or not, is irrelevant. I hope that doesn't come across as argumentative or condescending as it isn't intended that way

To op Didn't realise that you were limited to the DV box. In fairness, you can proxy the terminators as obliterators, and the tactical squad or chosen as havocs to test them out. I'd highly recommend that you get yourself a vindicator though, not necessarily for that game, but at some point.

It says "Select one of your units that was a target of the enemy's psychic power" "If none of your units were the target of the enemy's psychic power...follow the same process". I can definitely see why you wouldn't select a unit as it says a targeted unit but surely you can see why our house rules say you can as the only changes against following the same rules for DTW are no modifiers.

However I must admit I have a soft spot for kharn and other khorne models, so I may be a bit biased when it comes to rule interpretation.

I say that as long as OP isn't planning to take Kharn in a competitive tournament the rules are up to your interpretation.

To OP, I at least agree with JamesY on one thing: a vindicator would be a nice addition to your army in order to give it both anti tank (high strength) and anti infintary (pie plate).

I'll be honest, I see no room for interpretation as the rules are clearly worded. If a unit is targeted, the unit makes the roll with any applicable modifiers. If it doesn't target one of your units, then it is the player making the roll as you are not given the option to select a unit to make the roll. Sorry, I'm not trying to be argumentative, I just don't see any room for interpretation. It is bending the rules at best to do anything other. I too am a big fan of Kharn, and have been since his first appearance in wd, but his presence isn't enough to essentially cancel out your opponents' psychic phase.

To op, I also agree with mrhappyface's agreeing with the vindicator suggestion. Get one, give it a combi bolter and rocket launcher, and know no regrets.

I'm all about Terminator spam. Minimum squads with combi-meltas. I just bought 25 off ebay for a grand total of $56 USD + shipping (which was under $10 USD since I got them all from the same seller).

These are great ways to get in and pop people's high point vehicles. Give them each a chainfist for added greatness.

 Darth_Mox wrote:
I'm all about Terminator spam. Minimum squads with combi-meltas. I just bought 25 off ebay for a grand total of $56 USD + shipping (which was under $10 USD since I got them all from the same seller).

These are great ways to get in and pop people's high point vehicles. Give them each a chainfist for added greatness.

Thanks everyone for the tips etc
If anyone still got tips/advice/constructive criticism: go ahead!

Darth Mox, is said seller still selling those?
If so, and if he/she also sells other cheap cool stuff, would you mind commenting/PMing the name/link?
Thanks for the advice though.
I can get a bunch of terminators to just say "This is my turf, shoo."

But yeah...
Ahriman, Typhus or Kharn?
Along with either a Chaos Lord with Black Mace or Murder Sword or Nurgle Chaos Sorcerer?

Also, Vindicator eventually instead of warp talons?
Or add a vindicator and replace warp talons with havocs?

I am a recently returned player who opted for Chaos Space Marines, in my few games I can confirm a few things.
Don't use Warp Talons, ever, especially against Grey Knights
Obliterators are excellent, they always do well for me
Bikes and Spawn are also good, especially with Mark of Nurgle
You should have some cultists from Dark Vengeance, they're cheap enough to sit on objectives and do nothing else.
I don't personally rate Terminators, too expensive or random with deep strike and reserve

if your opponent is a friend I'd hope he'd be happy to let you proxy your models as something else. I learnt all this the hard way : )


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Also I sincerely wish Kharn allowed you to use his 2+ deny the witch for your whole army but unfortunately agree with Jamesy that this isn't the case

What is your opinion on:

Chaos Lord/Sorcerer and Kharn/Typhus/Ahriman
10 Chaos space marines + Aspiring Champ
9 Fallen Angels + Fallen Angel leader
4 Fallen Angel Terminators + Fallen Angel Terminator leader
2 Fallen Angel Bikers + Fallen Angel Biker leader
18 Chaos Cultists (9 ranked, 9 melee with some pistols) + 2 Chaos Cultist leaders (one with shotgun)
1 Helbrute
1 Vindicator/Obliterators or Havocs (Not entirely sure, all three seem to be decent vs Grey Knights)
I'm kind of on a budget for now.
In ten weeks I'll have the chaos lord, aspiring champ, 10 fallen angels, 5 fallen angel terminators, 3 fallen angel bikers, a fallen angel sorcerer, a helbrute, 20 sorcerers and the 6 Chosen. I'll immediately add a 10-man CSM squad to it.

What would you say would be the best to get to improve this list?
Do note, since Im not fond of spending a lot of money real fast, Ill have a 10 week or so gap (1 cluster of college) between these troops and the ones I might purchase next.

Thanks for your time

GreenNinjaCactus wrote:
What is your opinion on:

Chaos Lord/Sorcerer and Kharn/Typhus/Ahriman
10 Chaos space marines + Aspiring Champ
9 Fallen Angels + Fallen Angel leader
4 Fallen Angel Terminators + Fallen Angel Terminator leader
2 Fallen Angel Bikers + Fallen Angel Biker leader
18 Chaos Cultists (9 ranked, 9 melee with some pistols) + 2 Chaos Cultist leaders (one with shotgun)
1 Helbrute
1 Vindicator/Obliterators or Havocs (Not entirely sure, all three seem to be decent vs Grey Knights)
I'm kind of on a budget for now.
In ten weeks I'll have the chaos lord, aspiring champ, 10 fallen angels, 5 fallen angel terminators, 3 fallen angel bikers, a fallen angel sorcerer, a helbrute, 20 sorcerers and the 6 Chosen. I'll immediately add a 10-man CSM squad to it.

What would you say would be the best to get to improve this list?
Do note, since Im not fond of spending a lot of money real fast, Ill have a 10 week or so gap (1 cluster of college) between these troops and the ones I might purchase next.

Thanks for your time

Give the 2 squad of 5 Havoc each with 4 plasma gun and put them in Rhino, drive into 12 inch and you will be good. It will be just 330pts for the two, and the rest 170pts ypu can just pack min HQ and Cultist troops.

Thanks for the advice.
Ill eventually add either:
-A vindicator
-One or two havoc squads
-A rhino
-One obliterator squad