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I'm 90% sure the answer is yes but would welcome some dakka moral support on this as an argument over this soured the end of an otherwise very enjoyable game.

I had a vindicare in some ruins terrain. Not GW stuff, it had more solid walls. Last turn of the game and I move him within the terrain so he was hiding behind a solid wall.

My opponent declared a shooting attack with a devastator squad at the vindicare so I expressed surprise as he was out of LoS. I got told ruins don't block line of sight.

So, is that right?

40k is true line of sight for targeting.

He can't shoot at you if he can't see you.
If he can see any part of your head/arms/legs/base, he can shoot you. Seeing things that you are holding (swords, guns, etc) don't count.

Can you see trough it if yes he can see trough it.

That's just the point zoggy, he couldn't and claimed ruins were effectively invisible for determining line of sight.

In future I will just point him to the true line of sight rules near the start of the BRB and wait for him to find a rule that claims otherwise.

Thanks for the input guys!

You might want to buy a cat toy laser to solve these nou you can't yes you can see him discussions. ; )

 oldzoggy wrote:
You might want to buy a cat toy laser to solve these nou you can't yes you can see him discussions. ; )

It wouldn't have helped in this specific situation, by the sound of it, since his opponent apparently thought the ruin should be considered to be see-through.

We only know one side of the story there might be small cracks etc. It is simple to open your rulebook and find the "true line of site" paragraph. The I can see it no you don't discussions can be a bit harder to settle.

Indeed, Insaniak - a solid wall with no possible line of sight. And the claim that ruins didn't block line of sight.

Zoggy - no, no cracks. Literally a solid wall.

Does true line of sight also work with transparent walls? IIRC doesn't the true line of sight rule talking about a direct unobstructed line?

Playing devil's advocate here.

Transparent walls need to be handled before the battle begins. Glass might only offer a 6+ cover at best while a force field could block anything.

RAW: Doesn't have any rules for transparent walls. Note that this also includes the tau force field.

At the beginning of the game its helpful to come to an agreement with your opponent over how each individual piece of terrain will function.

Will the terrain block line of sight?

Will the terrain be impassable?

Will the terrain count as ruins and grant a 4+ cover save?

Etc.


I think in the absence of a discussion, terrain is assumed to be blocking line of sight so your opponent was definitely in the wrong to assume that a particular piece of terrain was invisible to line of sight requirements.

col_impact wrote:
At the beginning of the game its helpful to come to an agreement with your opponent over how each individual piece of terrain will function.

Will the terrain block line of sight?

Will the terrain be impassable?

Will the terrain count as ruins and grant a 4+ cover save?

Etc.


I think in the absence of a discussion, terrain is assumed to be blocking line of sight so your opponent was definitely in the wrong to assume that a particular piece of terrain was invisible to line of sight requirements.

I think his opponent confused a bit the rule of area of terrain like ruins (and the cover save as long you stand on it even if the model can be fully observed unobstructed) with the fact he still need to apply true line of sight despite the area cover to shoot.

He might have played to much vassal games ; )