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Ok this is what you do.

You set up your 5 imperial knight like you are going to play them. Then you let your opponent tailor his list 100% to kill imperial knights.

Now after he brings out all his knight killing toys. Ask him is that is what he is playing. He says yes then proceed to pull out your other army full of multi wound MCs or hordes of infantry and deploy with a huge smile on your face.

Punish these people who tailor their lists!!!

From my experience, the 370 Imperial Knights die to a 10pt gun is just utter disappointed. These things are the biggest waste of money and i only have myself to blame for thinking they were cool to buy. With that money i could of had an eldar army with 2 Wraithknights and a bunch of scat bikes.

So you are complaining that people figured out how to beat your zero fun cheese list and instead wish you bought a different zero fun cheese list?

Great post.

If gmc gets poisoned and snipped on 6s why cant SHV get haywire glanced only on a 6 and no pen?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Sunstripe wrote:
So you are complaining that people figured out how to beat your zero fun cheese list and instead wish you bought a different zero fun cheese list?

Great post.

firgure out? there is nothing to firegure out besides take more meltaguns and haywire. You make it sound like the art to beating Imperial Knights is more complex and mysterious than it is.

 Filch wrote:
If gmc gets poisoned and snipped on 6s why cant SHV get haywire glanced only on a 6 and no pen?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Sunstripe wrote:
So you are complaining that people figured out how to beat your zero fun cheese list and instead wish you bought a different zero fun cheese list?

Great post.

firgure out? there is nothing to firegure out besides take more meltaguns and haywire. You make it sound like the art to beating Imperial Knights is more complex and mysterious than it is.

Perhaps you should be asking how to win with IKs, since you are obviously having problems. The Court is very difficult to beat when played properly.

it wins in an environment that requires you to submit a list and you can not deviate from it. You make a list anticipating a variety of FMCs (flyrants), Decurion (night scythe n 4+++ rp), gladius grav spam, eldar scatbikes (occasional wraith knights ) etc...

Not ever list is completely anti vehicles and if it is then i sacrificed its horde killing ability.

But in the environment I am at, people are justified in fully tailoring their list to fight av13 shv walkers.

Okay make a MSU list also and once they say they are bringing their anti knight list you take your MSU list. Keep repeating until they finally realize how dumb it is to swap lists like that...

Problem solved.

Sunstripe wrote:
So you are complaining that people figured out how to beat your zero fun cheese list and instead wish you bought a different zero fun cheese list?

Great post.

He plays CSM. He deserves to run a cheese list once and a while.

For casual play it's great.

That does not work in a tourney.

In casual play my opponents tailor their list 100% to fight the av13...

That's kind of unsportsman like of you to do. If you are doing a special match and you encourage your opponent to list tailor just for you to change armies on them to give you an advantage is kind of mean. It also means that the title of this threat is mis-leading as you are not using knights at all to win your game.

You have my sympathies, I've ran all Imperial Knights before and its the epitome of the rock-paper-scissors match up...except because of the social contract between players, its expected that an opponent will tailor to you. The only way to win then is to use the knights as allies, which in your case maybe impossible. (I believe last time you raised the issue you stated financial constraints)

As a side note this probably should be moved to general rather than tactics though

The thing is Filch, Warhammer 40k is a game. It's about both players having fun. Running into a list that's tailored to win against you is just as not-fun for you as it is to other people running into all-Knight lists knowing that they don't nearly have enough anti-armour to defeat you with either. That's the problem with all-Knight lists in both casual and competitive environments; they are incredibly powerful, but because they're single-model units, if you engage them with the right tools, they'll keel over quickly and you just die.

The only problem is that other people have just as little fun AGAINST them when they're unable to harm them either! Anything less than those specific weapons you listed, and you're completely screwed against an All-Knight list.


If you want to have fun games with your Knights, you'll need to start taking them mixed with other units so that opponents won't demand to start list-tailoring. They're tailoring because, otherwise, it won't be a fun game for them either. You need to tackle THAT meta-game problem, not the in-game problem of the strengths and weaknesses of the Knights themselves.

When its a tournament with cash money/boxes of sprues as prizes, winning matters.
You still have to be a good sportsman though.

Of course, for tournaments winning does matter. But for tournaments we shouldn't be emotionally attached to our armies. We play what will win, and that might change from tourney to tourney depending on releases. It's pretty rare in 40k that you'll ever recoup your army's construction fee through winning tournaments.

But in the environment I am at, people are justified in fully tailoring their list to fight av13 shv walkers.

Well, have you considered asking people not to do that?

Knights are effective but beatable with non-tailored armies, too; Not ususally by wiping them out but by beating them on tactical objectives.

Here's a suggestion - and one that might make you a better Knights player*:

Take your 'default' knights list.
Offer someone a game.
Swap sides, and try to beat your own knights with their army.

If they see themselves (as knights) getting flattened again and again, then (a) they will start to realise that knights are actually beatable without a million meltahaywirelances, (b) they will not feel the need to tailor their armies when playing the other way around, and (c) you get experience of actual tactics of "how to kill knights" - which is a good way (when you start using your own army again) to learn how not to have that happen to you.

A big problem with 'really powerful' armies - or armies that appear really powerful (and let's be honest, with five superheavies, your army will always appear really powerful, whether it is or not), is that people don't pay attention when they lose. If they see you using the army, and also use the army themselves, and they know that when you use it you win and when they use it they lose against the same oppnent's army, they might start to accept that it's not overpowered, but you are genuinely good at using it.



* Note: I'm not suggesting you're not a good 40k player. But anyone can always improve and this is a good way to do so.

That is a great idea I like it but...i dont think anybody at my flgs would want to do that sadly. But I will ask and try anyways.

Swapping armies is a great idea to get a better understanding of what your army can do. My friends do it from time to time and it really helps. It helps point out some of your flaws as a general.

If your reputation on Dakka is anything like it is at your FLGS, I don't see anyone wanting to swap lists with you either - unfortunately D:

I think you might want invest in some kinder words when you post on Dakka!

It is upsetting to know how frequently you upset others on Dakka - may it be on purpose or not. 40k is a small niche community and it helps to have people in your corner from time to time. Wish you luck on finding a helping hand, swapping armies was a great suggestion!