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What in your opinion are the most balanced armies, armies that don't need to be nerfed or boosted and sit in the middle. Not too hot, not too cold but juuuuuuuust right in terms of balance and playability.

Khorne Daemonkin I think.

I was tempted to say BA, IG, Orks and DE because it would have been easy to say they are well balanced internally because everything's bad haha.

 Frozocrone wrote:
Khorne Daemonkin I think.

I was tempted to say BA, IG, Orks and DE because it would have been easy to say they are well balanced internally because everything's bad haha.

I agree, I've played a few games against KDK and they have some strong tactics but I never felt cheated while playing against them.

Haha and by balanced I don't mean equally terrible, I'm talking about something capable but not too powerful

Battle Sisters (including forge world). Play well and you can take on anything, but you have to play really well to take on the broken things.

Daemons:
- Almost every single unit in the codex is usable.

- The book is capable of building a list to play at either end of the power spectrum, or anywhere in between. You can go full out cheese and hang with most other 'Tournament' builds, right down to leaving the toys at home and having fun, close games against even the weakest books such as CSM's, BA's & Orks.

- Every mono God list is viable. The newest expansion from CotW has helped give Tzeentch a needed boost to Pink Horrors, who've been horribly gakked on by the basic rules for 7th.

- Lots of options within each slot.

- Fun characters that are more customisable than they first appear... Greaters not so much as of yet, with the Bloodthirster being the expection, but Heralds are a lot of fun to build between options for various Locii abilities, psychic levels, Gifts, and now, the new Relics from CotW.

- It's an early 6th edition book that's still holding solid, despite being over 3 years old now! (only Chaos Marines are older at nearly 4 years)

Daemons is usually mentioned as the most balanced army out there.

The 7th edition codices can hardly qualify since the design philosophy changed brutally in 2015, so basically the 2015 codices (Necrons, Eldar, Muhreens, Tau) are heads and shoulders above the 2014 ones (Orks, BA, DE, etc.) in terms of power with no balance across the board whatsoever.

Indeed you really have to split the armies up into the current playable editions:

7.5 Power Codexes

7.0 Weak codexes

6th and previous edition

And even then its massively complex due to formations, allies and the rest which means that points mean less and less - the power codexes often getting a substantail points boost due to free stuff over and above any unit boosts. Best to compare them within these three categories......

Eldar minus Scatbikes, spiders and D-weaponry is pretty solid tbh.

KDK is excellently balanced

Skiitari/Cult allied together outside convocation.

The non awful stuff in the ork Dex.

Experiment 626 wrote:
Daemons:
- Almost every single unit in the codex is usable.

- The book is capable of building a list to play at either end of the power spectrum, or anywhere in between. You can go full out cheese and hang with most other 'Tournament' builds, right down to leaving the toys at home and having fun, close games against even the weakest books such as CSM's, BA's & Orks.

- Every mono God list is viable. The newest expansion from CotW has helped give Tzeentch a needed boost to Pink Horrors, who've been horribly gakked on by the basic rules for 7th.

- Lots of options within each slot.

- Fun characters that are more customisable than they first appear... Greaters not so much as of yet, with the Bloodthirster being the expection, but Heralds are a lot of fun to build between options for various Locii abilities, psychic levels, Gifts, and now, the new Relics from CotW.

- It's an early 6th edition book that's still holding solid, despite being over 3 years old now! (only Chaos Marines are older at nearly 4 years)

This.

Daemons can also accommodate various play styles and aesthetics, for the different gods and combinations of the gods.

Depends if we are talking internal or external. Reading this, it seems like internal.

I would say Eldar, Necrons, and Daemons are the most internally balanced dexes.

Akiasura wrote:
Depends if we are talking internal or external. Reading this, it seems like internal.

I would say Eldar, Necrons, and Daemons are the most internally balanced dexes.

If we're looking at external balance, I'd give Daemons the top spot honestly, as we can readily build multiple styles of lists that can play at any possible level you can think of...

The new stuff from CotW has given us a ridiculously good Decurion bonus, and Khorne/Tzeentch/Nurgle can run decent Cores, while the Slaanesh, 3x Grinder and/or Furies are viable Auxiliaries to choose from.
Add in some of those really tasty new Relics (which regular CAD's can use), and Fateweaver for guaranteed Str.D psy power.

Or we can play super fluff mode or really anything in between.

Of all the current books, Daemons has definitely held up the best!

Internally, I was surprised at just how well balanced Eldar was, a buff to the banshees and wraithblades/lords and a nerf to the wraithknight and scatter lasers and we are all ready to go.

Externally is always going to be a tough one and very subjective but I'd say: KDK, SOB, non formation DA, non formation Necrons, Renegades and Heretics (maybe?), Corsairs (maybe?) and Dark Eldar seem to be about the same power wise (too soon to see about new always Waaagh formation Orks)

Akiasura wrote:
Depends if we are talking internal or external. Reading this, it seems like internal.

I would say Eldar, Necrons, and Daemons are the most internally balanced dexes.

Necrons I believe are the more internally balanced codex. Eldar, not so much. My view of internal balance is that everything is not only playable, but decent, and has a reason to be taken over other options. Eldar's internal balance is way off because of this. Guardians and Storm Guardians are almost never seen on field, most people don't care for the Phoenix Lords, Wraithblades are bad, Wraithlords are bad, Howling Banshees are still considered bad, I still don't see people ever using Vypers, and people stopped using Warwalkers when Jetbikes could spam Scatterlasers. Please enlighten me as to how that's internal balance.

 krodarklorr wrote:

Necrons I believe are the more internally balanced codex. Eldar, not so much. My view of internal balance is that everything is not only playable, but decent, and has a reason to be taken over other options. Eldar's internal balance is way off because of this. Guardians and Storm Guardians are almost never seen on field, most people don't care for the Phoenix Lords, Wraithblades are bad, Wraithlords are bad, Howling Banshees are still considered bad, I still don't see people ever using Vypers, and people stopped using Warwalkers when Jetbikes could spam Scatterlasers. Please enlighten me as to how that's internal balance.

Thing is, outside of the Banshees (oh how I've tried to make them work T.T) the Wraithlord and the Avatar (who to be fair has never died for moe and has consistantly kicked ass for some mathmatically improbable reason) I think I can make any unit in that codex work well...

from melta/battle focused guardians, to objective camping rangers, Warwalker/vyper gun platforms, Haywire toting hawks, HQ hunting Autarchs, moral/tank busting hemlocks to spiritseers and Wraithblades (which I am investing in and am pretty sure I can make work even if it kills me!)

 krodarklorr wrote:

Akiasura wrote:
Depends if we are talking internal or external. Reading this, it seems like internal.

I would say Eldar, Necrons, and Daemons are the most internally balanced dexes.

Necrons I believe are the more internally balanced codex. Eldar, not so much. My view of internal balance is that everything is not only playable, but decent, and has a reason to be taken over other options. Eldar's internal balance is way off because of this. Guardians and Storm Guardians are almost never seen on field, most people don't care for the Phoenix Lords, Wraithblades are bad, Wraithlords are bad, Howling Banshees are still considered bad, I still don't see people ever using Vypers, and people stopped using Warwalkers when Jetbikes could spam Scatterlasers. Please enlighten me as to how that's internal balance.

I would argue that our (Necrons) weapon options are not terribly balanced. If a model/unit has the option to take gauss, and the model/unit will spend at least 2 turns in rapid fire range, then gauss far outshines any other weapon option. As far as the units go, though, you are right. We do have some spectacular options to take! Even the C'tan can be useful.

 EnTyme wrote:

 krodarklorr wrote:

Akiasura wrote:
Depends if we are talking internal or external. Reading this, it seems like internal.

I would say Eldar, Necrons, and Daemons are the most internally balanced dexes.

Necrons I believe are the more internally balanced codex. Eldar, not so much. My view of internal balance is that everything is not only playable, but decent, and has a reason to be taken over other options. Eldar's internal balance is way off because of this. Guardians and Storm Guardians are almost never seen on field, most people don't care for the Phoenix Lords, Wraithblades are bad, Wraithlords are bad, Howling Banshees are still considered bad, I still don't see people ever using Vypers, and people stopped using Warwalkers when Jetbikes could spam Scatterlasers. Please enlighten me as to how that's internal balance.

I would argue that our (Necrons) weapon options are not terribly balanced. If a model/unit has the option to take gauss, and the model/unit will spend at least 2 turns in rapid fire range, then gauss far outshines any other weapon option. As far as the units go, though, you are right. We do have some spectacular options to take! Even the C'tan can be useful.

It depends on what you want to do with your weapons. A lot of people make the comparison that they want to be up close with their guns, so why take Tesla? Well, duh. Tesla is good on Tomb Blades and Immortals that are sitting back field in cover on an objective. In fact, I want to get more Tomb Blades to run 6-9 with Tesla Carbines and Shadowlooms. Tesla is far superior on a unit that doesn't want to get up close and personal. It just seems most people prefer to get up in your face.

I believe that all of our weapons are good, just depends on how you use them (same cannot be said for Imperial Armies, or even a few other Xenos armies).

And yeah, I've had a ton of success and fun with C'tans in non-competitive games.