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Hello all,

I am relatively new to 40k. Haven't played in a while and wanna start up with a new army.

I just can't decide between CSM and Chaos Daemons. Ultimately i wanna branch out into Tyranids, but one of my close friends plays them so for variety i will start with another force.

So, which would you recommend? Chaos Space Marines or Daemons? Here are some things i generally enjoy:
- Painting
- Not too competitive, rather have a fun and interesting army than a strong and boring one
- Variety. I'd like to have multiple list options for fun games and not just be stuck with a cookie-cutter list
- Easy to play, hard to master. I don't have much experience so a beginner-friendly army would be nice, but i still want it to have complexity i can learn as i go.

Hope you can help me decide between these 2 armies And yes, i know i can bring them in as allies and take both, but i wanna start with just one of them and branch out later maybe.

Thanks in advance.

Neither is too competitive, CSM is not even competitive. Daemonkin is good option if you want both, but only Khorne is done.

Which models you want to have? I like more CSM models and painting them. Daemons are better in tabletop play, they can be competitive.

Isn't there an update to Chaos Daemons alongside Space Wolves?

Demons can make some nasty lists, I believe a demon army placed fairly high at this years LVO. The book has aged very well. CSM are in a pretty sad shape, to make anything decent your going to need allies/forgeworld.

seerex wrote:
So, which would you recommend? Chaos Space Marines or Daemons? Here are some things i generally enjoy:
- Painting
- Not too competitive, rather have a fun and interesting army than a strong and boring one
- Variety. I'd like to have multiple list options for fun games and not just be stuck with a cookie-cutter list
- Easy to play, hard to master. I don't have much experience so a beginner-friendly army would be nice, but i still want it to have complexity i can learn as i go.

- For painting, with CSM you're going to be painting a lot of armor and plates and machinery. With Daemons, you are generally painting more flesh and organic materials. Both offer countless color options.
- CSM is sadly in pretty poor shape codex wise. Daemons have aged much much better. I think they synergize well as allies.
- For Daemons, I find that I rotate between a few themes list wise (flyers, infantry heavy, beast/bike) whereas with CSM, anything but Nurgle lists results in a lack of defense.
- CSM is definitely beginner friendly. The big draw for Daemons is their general complexity (lots of random tables, rules, etc.).

Draco wrote:Neither is too competitive, CSM is not even competitive. Daemonkin is good option if you want both, but only Khorne is done.

Which models you want to have? I like more CSM models and painting them. Daemons are better in tabletop play, they can be competitive.

That's a big *IF* on more 'kin codexes coming. Khorne daemonkin can make a fun combined force Khorne themed army.

HoundsofDemos wrote:Demons can make some nasty lists, I believe a demon army placed fairly high at this years LVO. The book has aged very well. CSM are in a pretty sad shape, to make anything decent your going to need allies/forgeworld.

4th place was a double Daemon CAD Flying Circus list. There are some hard counters out there though.

Nilok wrote:Isn't there an update to Chaos Daemons alongside Space Wolves?

There is, which includes errata, WD and dataslate units, a slew of formations (which are mostly fluffy), a detachment, and all new optional artefacts, warlord traits, psychic disciplines, and objectives. Not exactly an overhaul, but a welcome update.

Personally, I have and play both armies. Generally, I find myself playing list which are combined forces, either double CAD or CAD + allied, composed primarily of Daemons, points wise. Sometimes using a CSM CAD as a primary detachment can be useful for avoiding the Warpstorm table even if it's bare minimum. The best way I can describe both playwise is that CSM is SM Lite, where you don't get as many options, which are replaced with some themed options or just... not) and Daemons change the rules of engagement, with a strong focus on psykers, replacing the standard armor save with invuln saves, and the double edged sword of Warpstorm and Daemonic Instability.

Personally I'm going for a CSM core with an allied daemon detachment.

This gives me a nice variety of models to paint. Power armour guys. a bunch of little daemons (of various types), tanks, with a daemon prince and a Heldrake as centerpieces.

I'm not expecting to be competitive with these two codex. I'm not interested in building a cheese list or playing against "OP" lists. I'll be taking games against friends and other like minded people who want to play "oldschool" 40k rather than anime mech warrior battles.

(Not hating on people that want to play competitive, it's just not the 40k I enjoy).

TLDR: Get both.

Chaos Space marines have the best fluff imo, and have loads of painting options and styles, I would say more than any other army. Particularly if you aim for a war band, you can have lots of different colours in one army, plus Spawn, Daemon Princes, tanks, converted mutations etc.
I don't play competitively either, in this respect they are fun to use

Daemons steadily place in top tournaments every year. They are an older book, but stay relevant and can be a serious force in the hands of a skilled player. They have a lot of tricks and shenanigans that can make them really powerful.

CSM is going to be easier to play and build an army, but will probably get boring faster. Personally I think the CSM book is pretty bland compared to the daemon one.

For the foreseeable future, I'd go with Daemons as the main and use CSM's either as an allied detachment, or else as a smaller CAD depending on what unit(s) you really want from that book.

Chaos Marines are pretty much at the point that both their rules, and especially their entire model line is need of a complete overhaul & re-do. The only kits currently worth keeping, are pretty much the 2012 kits, (Raptors/Warptalons, Dinobots & Helturkey), and the Termie Lord/Sorcerer. Every other kit is trash and/or severely lacking in options.

Good news is that pretty much all of the reliable rumor mongers have said that Chaos is due a massive release & overhaul sometime after Q1 of next year! Hopefully we get our long awaited due, and get a Dark Eldar level re-boot.
At this point, Chaos is well deserving of a 4-5 month release, as we've been ignored and left to rot for so long.