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Ok so it says regarding artillery that one model within 2" can fire artillery instead of its own weapon but if its a heavy/ barrage it can not move and shoot because blasts can't be snap shot. But lets say you have a model at the front who doesn't move and one of the other crew moves the artillery up in its movement because you only one model to move it and the model who doesn't move can shoot it with no penalty? Now this may be a bit of a stretch and i think the way they cover it is by saying something like "if the unit has moves it counts as having moved" but i can't find anything yet. Thoughts?

Also would this be something unsportsmanlike? Or is it reasonable? if of course it isn't illegal.

I play Distortion Cannons. Mine are modeled so I have two free-standing Guardians for each artillery piece.

In order to benefit from the unit's BS in order to reduce scatter, both the NEAREST weapon and the model 'firing' that weapon have to have line of sight. This is what I think is key--if you move a model so that it gets better line of sight, that model is no longer eligible to fire the weapon at all. I often reposition the members of the artillery crew, making sure though that I keep 3 of them still so that they are eligible to fire.

Does that help? Hope so!

No idea, sounds interesting and the perfect way to start an argument. Anyone any idea on the RAW of this all ?

From 'Heavy Weapons' on page 41 of the main rulebook (emphasis added):

If a model carrying a Heavy weapon moved in the preceding Movement phase, he can fire it in the Shooting phase but only as Snap Shots...

In the case of Artillery, which model is carrying the Heavy weapon? Since none of the crew is carrying it, could it be considered to be carrying itself?

I imagine it like a game of leap frog. One guy at the front doesn't move and the guy behind pulls it forward for him to shoot with a little extra range. It's effectively of keeping a weapons platform a little bit mobile.

I don't have my rule book with me but the relevant rules are in unit type artillery for movement.

Artillery rules

MOVEMENT PHASE
Artillery units need at least one crewman per gun in order for the unit to move. If an Artillery unit does not
have at least one crewman per gun, then it may not move; the remaining crewmen will not voluntarily
leave a gun behind.
SHOOTING WITH ARTILLERY
One crewman that is within 2" of a gun in the Shooting phase can fire it. The crewmen firing the gun
cannot fire any weapons they are carrying, while the other crew members (and any Independent
Characters in the unit) are free to fire their side arms, provided the whole unit shoots at the same target.
When firing the guns, there must be a line of sight to the target from both the gun model and the crewman
firing it (unless they are Barrage weapons, of course). Ranges are measured from the barrel on the gun
model


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So I would say at least 1 crew model needs to not move in order to shoot the artillery piece.


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 Ghaz wrote:
From 'Heavy Weapons' on page 41 of the main rulebook (emphasis added):

If a model carrying a Heavy weapon moved in the preceding Movement phase, he can fire it in the Shooting phase but only as Snap Shots...

In the case of Artillery, which model is carrying the Heavy weapon? Since none of the crew is carrying it, could it be considered to be carrying itself?

if you are using this you might come to the conclusion that artillery can always move and shoot ... clearly not RAI or how I would rule it, but is there any RAW preventing it ?

So why isn't the model of the gun the 'model carrying a Heavy weapon'?

You can totally move and fire artillery. Just remember movement is on a model by model bases. If you have a unit of two guns, you can move 1 and the other stand still. The one that moved is on snap fire, provide it can snap fire. The one that didn't move is at full BS.

Re-reading the Artillery rules (on pg. 64) I actually don't see anything that precludes Artillery models, both guns and crew, from moving and shooting (or requiring them to be fired as snap-shots), even if they're Heavy or Ordnance weapons.

As Ghaz said, those restrictions are based on 'carrying the weapon' and in the Artillery rules the crew models are specifically mentioned to NOT be carrying the gun models: "The crewmen firing the gun cannot fire any weapons they are carrying..."

I suppose logically it makes sense—the whole point of a crew serviced weapon is that it's more portable than one that's being physically carried—but it seems like quite the loophole for large weapons to move and shoot blasts at full accuracy.

Maybe I missed something?

DoW

You've missed my point. The model of the gun has a stat line and is considered a 'model' by the rules. It is the one that's carrying the heavy weapon.

 oldzoggy wrote:

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So I would say at least 1 crew model needs to not move in order to shoot the artillery piece.

This sound fair to me. Definitely HIWPI.

 Ghaz wrote:
You've missed my point. The model of the gun has a stat line and is considered a 'model' by the rules. It is the one that's carrying the heavy weapon.

Then if your point is that the Gun Model cannot shoot because it moved (or must fire snap shots), I disagree.

Heavy Weapons (pg. 41) wrote:"When shooting, a model with a Heavy weapon shoots the number of times indicated. If a model carrying a Heavy weapon moved in the preceding Movement phase, he can fire it in the Shooting phase but only as Snap Shots."

Ordnance Weapons (pg. 41) wrote:"When shooting, a model with an Ordnance weapon fires the number of times indicated in its profile after its type. A non-vehicle model carrying an Ordnance weapon cannot fire it in the Shooting phase if he moved in the preceding Movement phase." (pg. 41)

Artillery (pg. 64) wrote:"Artillery units consist of a number of crew models and the gun models themselves... One crewman that is within 2" of a gun in the Shooting phase can fire it. The crewmen firing the gun cannot fire any weapons they are carrying, while the other crew members are free to fire their sidearms..."

The restriction of firing Heavy or Ordnance weapons lies with the "model carrying the weapon." Gun models from Artillery units do not fire the weapon (pg. 64) and crew models do not carry the weapon (pg. 64). Therefore, both the crew model and the gun model are free to move and fire with no restrictions based on how the rules for movement and firing weapons are worded. Furthermore, an Artillery unit comprised of Ordnance weapons would be free to move and fire regardless of the restriction based on non-vehicle units (pg. 41) since the crew model is firing, but not carrying, and the gun model is carrying, but not firing.

Is that HIWPI? Probably not, but I don't use Artillery. It seems unintentional (especially with regards to moving and shooting Ordnance Artillery) but pretty clear-cut according to the RAW.

DoW