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I really like the Orks and how they are not serious. However everyone knows that power-list builders and uber competitive players laugh at Orks and blow them away. Armies like Necrons, Space Marines, and Eldar will not even break a sweat.

I'm a mostly causal player but like to go to maybe 2-4 ITC tournaments/TempleCon a year - are there ANY ork lists that can at least have a chance of beating ScatBike WraithKnight power lists or Grav Spam or Battle Company armies?

I really find Green Tide appealing but is it true that they now took that formation out? Are there any way to run assault foot Orks somewhat competitive?

Unfortunately no, orks are in a bad spot right now. Each new release they get weaker.

Warbikes and tankbustas can work, but not at the level of marines , eldat and tau.

It tough, everything orks want to do, others armies do better.

As people optimize more and more to kill GMCs and SHWs, Ork boyz do get more and more counter-meta, however.

Our gaming group plays Maelstrom missions, so my Ork Trukk spam has had limited success. I take two detachments, 6 trukks, 6 min sized lootaz, and then solo buggies and koptaz to zoom around the board collecting objectives.

I've only faced one tabling recently....

Against casual lists Orks can do well, and provide a fun engaging game for both players.

If you want to go competitive there are better armies for that...

If you want the most competive ork list then orks is not the army for you. Really it isn't . Orks do not do good on tournaments at all. You will never win a tournament with the curent orks unless all your opponents are incompetent fools. GW just released a update for a supplement and it was horrible so don't expect much from them soon.

If you like orks, and like them enough to spend tons of money on it and don't mind losing games this is an army for you. If you do mind DON'T START WITH ORKS. you will not believe how many ork players have shelved their army because of the current rules.

DorianGray wrote:
I really like the Orks and how they are not serious. However everyone knows that power-list builders and uber competitive players laugh at Orks and blow them away. Armies like Necrons, Space Marines, and Eldar will not even break a sweat.

I'm a mostly causal player but like to go to maybe 2-4 ITC tournaments/TempleCon a year - are there ANY ork lists that can at least have a chance of beating ScatBike WraithKnight power lists or Grav Spam or Battle Company armies?

I really find Green Tide appealing but is it true that they now took that formation out? Are there any way to run assault foot Orks somewhat competitive?

Bikestar with a big mek stompa. Add lootas/tankbustas to flavor, and a VSG.

Foot orks were good with green tide and a VSG. Check with your local TOs to see if Green Tide is still legal - as I understand it, they took out the formation in the most recent supplement. But I bet you could come up with something moderately competitive lists even with the new Ork detachment - being able to WAAAGH every turn is not nothing, and Ghaz's bullyboys is still a very good formation (especially with a VSG).

I bet VSG + bullyboys + bikestar would work rather nicely

Paint 'em up really well (Golden Demon well) and try to win on hobby score. You can just resign the games.

 luke1705 wrote:


Bikestar with a big mek stompa. ....

Big mek stompa -> is only legal in the ITC all other tournaments are not likely to allow this thing any more. There is no longer any FW support for that unit.
The Codex stompa is still legit but that one is over 800 pts and gets slaughtered by half that points total of Eldar knights.

Bikestar -> Is in all cases worse then a space marine bike unit and your tournament opponents knows how to kill those.

Add lootas/tankbustas to flavor, -> These are good but not that good LD7 remember


Foot orks were good with green tide -> Green tide was a gimick that worked in a few tournaments but it isn't that good really nor is it that fun to play or play against and it might be no longer legit.

Ork detachment - being able to WAAAGH every turn is not nothing -> read some other threads why this detachment is horrible.

Ghaz's bullyboys -> 2 wound terminators,with a powerfist and a Bs 2 twinlinked storm boters but no inv save of any kind and the slow and purposeful rule.
That are more expensive then SM assault terminators

So yeah have fun with those "all star" units

Greentide!


Oopsy...!

Correction - I meant Buzzgob's mek stompa. FW still has the rules online for free

While yes gw does seem to hate us, there is still hope that FW will redo the dreddmob...could be good.
Also, there have been ork lists that have done very well in itc tournaments. Check around dakka dakka and the Web for such lists.
Usually these lists focus on our best units. Tankbustas and warbikes. They often include FW vehicles and characters. Once you find out a list you would like to imitate then ask around on dakka dakka for rules clarifications and suggestions. We are reAly good at that.
I know what your asking I think. You want to have a competitive list bust not along the lines of winning a tournament. Maybe something that brings you in the top 20 or 10. Orks can get you there, just not the top.
Otherwise, on a casual basis orks are everyone's favorite army and opponent (ok, not every one).
Dont let some uv us get you depressed before you buy.

Make it a hobby showcase army. Horde armies, painted to above tabletop standards, are extremely impressive to look at. Scratchbuild and covert each vehicle to be unique. That's how I would approach an Ork army. Feth actually trying to win games with it.

It's probably worth pointing out that you can still have fun and win at a GT even if your list is bad - not everyone brings crazy cutthroat lists, so you will probably lose a game or so and then you'll be playing against everyone else whose list is as bad as yours

Might not be the most appealing tactic, but were you really going 6-0 at that GT anyway? No, so does it matter if you finish 100th or 200th? I don't really think it's a huge deal for a lot of people, and if you play an army that you love and have a good time doing it, then you're having fun right.

Anyone who tells you anything else is wrong because my opinion is right.

DorianGray wrote:
I'm a mostly causal player but like to go to maybe 2-4 ITC tournaments/TempleCon a year - are there ANY ork lists that can at least have a chance of beating ScatBike WraithKnight power lists or Grav Spam or Battle Company armies?

No.

But don't let that dissuade you! If you like the 'feel' of an army, play it for a while. You might wind up middle of the pack or at the lower tables at your local tourneys, but that's OK. Your playing to have fun, not to faceroll.

One of my best games was at Adepticon where I was playing in the team tournament with my plague marines vs. a Necron Air Force. There was no way I could have won the game -- but the fact that I got extremely close to winning even with my huge disadvantage was enough of a morale victory for me. Everyone left that game saying it was one of the better ones they ever played -- and they had a newfound respect for plague marines.

DorianGray wrote:
I really like the Orks and how they are not serious. However everyone knows that power-list builders and uber competitive players laugh at Orks and blow them away. Armies like Necrons, Space Marines, and Eldar will not even break a sweat.

I'm a mostly causal player but like to go to maybe 2-4 ITC tournaments/TempleCon a year - are there ANY ork lists that can at least have a chance of beating ScatBike WraithKnight power lists or Grav Spam or Battle Company armies?

I really find Green Tide appealing but is it true that they now took that formation out? Are there any way to run assault foot Orks somewhat competitive?

There's no way to make assault foot Orks competitive. There really aren't any ork lists that are going to beat the power lists you mention. On the other hand, GW seems to care very little about balance or playability, so there's as much chance that they will curbstomp current good lists as there is that they will continue to abuse underpowered lists.

I'm just saying...you can buy and paint the army you love and lose with it, or buy and paint an army you hate, only to see the rules change and make it suck too. At least one option gives you an army you love.

I have a list for you: 18 x 29 grots (including 2 runtherds), for 558 wounds. Even Tau would struggle to kill them all.

It mostly depends on missions you're playing. Orks can't win killpoints but can compete with everything else. That's the main reason why 'tourney' players don't take orks seriously. There are still a lot of tourneys that have a strong emphasis on killpoints.

However, when killpoints are not a thing, like when we look at regular maelstorm or some variations of it, orks can be increadibly effective.

Here are a few things that are confirmed to be performing good:
- Greentide + VSG. Preferably with something like tankbustas in trukks or FW vehicles that are strictly speaking superior to codex ones (cause everyone knows that FW is just codex +1 for tanks and big robots). A potent but hard to play list. Especially in tournament limited time enviroment. If not for short games, it'd have a potential to be in top every time. Cause it's a strong list indeed.
- MANz spam + VSG. Something like bullyboyz in trukks or wagonz or better FW transports.
- Bike spam with Zag - FW dude that makes all bikes troops. Oh, and VSG ofc.

See the trend here? VSG + preferably FW. Ofc, it's doable without VSG and FW and we have confirmed tourney results with orks doing increadibly well. For example, Fexini and his Green Tide went good until he got kicked out of the ladder by mistake in one tourney without FW or VSG and than barely missed top 8 with FW and VSG cause judjes didn't allow him to perform his turn (while the opponent performed his) cause of time limits.

However, Green Tide could be left behind with a GW mistake with the new awful Ghaz book. Early to tell, but seems that we might be left with only speed freaks.

 luke1705 wrote:
Correction - I meant Buzzgob's mek stompa. FW still has the rules online for free

Nope they don't. yeah the hidden link is still available. But the 5th edition book is out off print and the 6th edition update filled with horrible rule mismatching is no longer linked at at the FW site.
I would not want to centre my army around anything that is in this document. This includes but is not limited to:

-Discount stompa
-Da rippa
-Any FW LOW ( this file is also no longer linked at)

To sum it up these are the "most competitive builds" but they are all dubious at best in the current situation.

- Biker spam with Da rippa -> see above.
- Discount Stompa -> See above + FW made a mistake and admitted it. The only reason why this became popular was the ITC voting system where a majority voted/ruled against any reasonable ruling in order to buff orks.
- Green tide -> removed in the update and wasn't really that good to start with





Automatically Appended Next Post:

 JimOnMars wrote:
I have a list for you: 18 x 29 grots (including 2 runtherds), for 558 wounds. Even Tau would struggle to kill them all.

You don't need to kill them all these fethers have an abysmal low LD and T2. Tau would just evaporate any unit they aim at unless it is an anti monster / anti tank army. That said it would be fun to see an grav spamm list shoot at it


Automatically Appended Next Post:
You guys might all want to sell the army you love. But the truth is that it isn't competitive at all. Sure you could be one of the best ork players, get lucky avoid meta and win some games vs less intelligent players with an unbalanced list. But in general you don't play against that in tournaments. In general you will play vs armies with at least 2x the point efficiency as your army has and allmost all of their weapons will be perfectly suited to mow down your vehicles and infantry.

You don't have to believe me on my word. Just look up some recent tournament results, to see how orks are doing. A quick spoiler most of the time they aren't close to being one of the top 10 lists. It is the few exceptions we all want to remember and that one exception why the green tide became popular.

This doesn't mean that you can't have fun casual games with them, but they are not suited for competitive play at all if you intent to win tournaments with them.

Just for lulz, the highest LVO Orks were 53rd. Compared to the highest pure (I suppose) Imperial Knights that placed 63rd. Not to mention AM (101 st place) and BA (108th place)

CragHack wrote:
Just for lulz, the highest LVO Orks were 53rd. Compared to the highest pure (I suppose) Imperial Knights that placed 63rd. Not to mention AM (101 st place) and BA (108th place)

Jup here is more data about it. Even dark eldar, tyranids and choas space marines scored better on that tournament. That makes them all lower tier -> non competitive armies
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/680065.page

pure (I suppose)

Na I believe they ordered them by primary detachment, making imperial and other battle brothered armies kinda blurry.

Ive seen a couple of people write that green tide has been removed, is this from the upcoming revised Waagh Ghazkul book?

also what does VSG stand for?

void shield generator.

That limited edition thingy, that goes for ~300 dollar at ebay and that could be worth its points if you play it defensively and you opponent doesn't know how to handle it.

 oldzoggy wrote:
void shield generator.

That limited edition thingy, that goes for ~300 dollar at ebay and that could be worth its points if you play it defensively and you opponent doesn't know how to handle it.

One of the beauties of playing orks is that you can scratch build nearly anything. I used to comb yard sales for ork truuks and battlewagon conversions from old kid toys.

Good point. Does anyone have good examples of a decent scratch build ork Void shield generator. I can find some nice looking ork tellyporta's but no void shield generators.

 oldzoggy wrote:
Good point. Does anyone have good examples of a decent scratch build ork Void shield generator. I can find some nice looking ork tellyporta's but no void shield generators.

While its a nice conversion I am not convinced of its usefulness. I want the following things.

1: ~the same size
2: ~the same capacity for models to stand on it

 oldzoggy wrote:
While its a nice conversion I am not convinced of its usefulness. I want the following things.

1: ~the same size
2: ~the same capacity for models to stand on it

Build your own from a truuk, battlewagon, or any kids toy you find at a yard sale. Add ork bits and *poof* it's orky.

That one looks like it was once a bastion.

I've played two games with my new Blood Axes, which revolve around trukks full of 'ardboyz, mek gunz, and a Squiggoth with MANz and Grotsnik in it. I know it'd get stomped by a serious competitive list, but I've won both of my games against more casual armies, and they were both pretty fun. Hell, the Slaaneshi Daemons list I beat had two flying daemon princes and a Keeper of Secrets in it. The Imperial FIsts were a softer list.

You can do alright with them, but I wouldn't try to play in super competitive events if I could help it.

Why on earth would you ever want to include a squiggoth in a competive list ? It sure looks great and adds character but it is dirt slow lacks real offensive abilities and almost as expensive as a landraider.

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/643980.page

This is part of the tactics thread. It's a lot of pages, but it is full of useful information on ideas for competitive lists. It's just a big read.