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This is kind of a trivial question but I am not sure where the rules prove this one way or the other. So please point me to page numbers or something!

Say warp spiders are shooting an I4 unit like terminators with a grandmaster in it. Do you roll against I4 or I5?

Intuitively it makes sense you would use the majority so that the least amount of game mechanics are changed without text expressly saying to do so. But I wouldn't put it past some of my typical opponents to call this into question.

Thanks in advance!

They use majority initiative in this case, since you replace "toughness" with "initiative" in the shooting process. So yes, in that case, until the Grandmaster's number of wounds is greater than the the number of wounds possessed by the Terminators, Initiative 4 will be use.

 Yarium wrote:
They use majority initiative in this case, since you replace "toughness" with "initiative" in the shooting process. So yes, in that case, until the Grandmaster's number of wounds is greater than the the number of wounds possessed by the Terminators, Initiative 4 will be use.

The number of wounds doesn't matter. You're looking for the number of models.

 Yarium wrote:
until the Grandmaster's number of wounds is greater than the the number of wounds possessed by the Terminators, Initiative 4 will be use.

While I do agree with your statement, I am not sure why his number of wounds would matter. In my area, majority T is counted by models, not wounds. I would be interested to discuss, since counting it by wounds could change the outcome in many different circumstances. The BRB just say "use Majority", so I could see why someone could use wounds or models

Counting Wounds was an artifact of 4th edition, were the strength of the unit was counted by wounds, not models. Back then a lot of rules interacted with Unit Strength, which meant that single-model units (such as MCs) and multi-wound models (such as battlesuits, ogryns and tyranid warriors) would always be at a disadvantage for those checks unless something was put into place to counteract it.

Unit Strength has since been largely written out of the rulebook, with whatever's left replaced by "number of models".

Yes, Wounds do not have Toughness values; models do. We gauge majority Toughness value by the number of models with a given Toughness value.

Apologies if this should be in a new thread but I have an additional question that is very similar to this. What happens when warp spiders shoot at an artillery unit. The rulebook says that you always use T7 for artillery but warpspiders resolve against initiative.

codex trumps rulebook so I would assume you roll against the initiative of the infantry models firing the artillery but wounds can be allocated to the artillery unit as well. The artillery stat line has no inititative so how is this resolved?

Is it a question of number of models in the unit. eg if there are less firers than artillery pieces you resolve against T7 or if there are more firers which is usually the case you resolve againstg firer's initiative?

As an Eldar player, I play that you use the majority Initiative of the non-gun models in an Artillery unit.

As far as I know there are only what, 3 Artillery units, not counting FW automated Artillery? Orks will still be wounded on 2+, SM will still be wounded on 2+. The only one it makes a difference for is Eldar where it would be a 3+.

if the unit has more than 2 models left of I4, and the IC at I5, you'd be wounding on majority initiative 4. If tied, you'd be wounding on I5(as you go with what's better for your opponent when tied).

Ok so in an example of ork artillery,

if you had less gretchin remaining than artillkery pieces do you still use the inititaive for the gretchin ot T& for the artillery?

Also if the closest models to the firer are the artillery pieces do you still use the iniative of gretchin?

 Nithaniel wrote:
Ok so in an example of ork artillery,

if you had less gretchin remaining than artillkery pieces do you still use the inititaive for the gretchin ot T& for the artillery?

I would play that for Artillery units you would always need to use the Initiative of the crew models, unless they release an Artillery unit where a gun model has an Initiative value. Or if the crew models had mixed Initiative values or were joined by enough Independent Characters for the idea of majority Initiative to be relevant.

Also if the closest models to the firer are the artillery pieces do you still use the iniative of gretchin?

Closest model does not matter for rolling To Wound. The closest model is considered once you get to allocating successful Wounds and taking saves.

 Nithaniel wrote:
Ok so in an example of ork artillery,

if you had less gretchin remaining than artillkery pieces do you still use the inititaive for the gretchin ot T& for the artillery?

Also if the closest models to the firer are the artillery pieces do you still use the iniative of gretchin?

For artillery, the only thing that changes is the crew gains the T value of the artillery unit. If you wound on I, it wont matter at all.