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Looking at the Deathwatch rules, I'd honestly just ignore the Formation as it hinders 4 models.

Move White Scar up first, force some saves on a high priority model and maybe swipe a couple of dudes while you're there with HoW/PowerSword. DS the Salamander, Raven Guard and Blood Angel onto White Scar because Tellyporta homer. Frag Cannon is A2 not heavy so perhaps purchase a Pod for the remainders and plonk on top of the White Scar with Drop Pod Assault.
The Blood Raven can use Sanctic, Malefic and Biomancy, so perhaps put both into Biomancy and maybe let the Terminator tank alot of shots.

Never use this as Primary unless you plan to take GK/Inquisitors as backup, ignore the formation and alpha strike.

Doesnt it say the Teleport homer is for terminators only? So the RG and BA would still scatter.

I'd probably wait for the Deathwatch Codex to make this thread.

Hot damn you're right.
Maybe you can bung them all in a Rhino or LRC (Suberei, Jump Packers and Branatar not included for a Rhino) and then even if they DS they can get where they need to go.

Use them only as an allied detachment including the librarian and squad donatus. Rest is meh, 270 is fine for ML2 on biomancy and an upgraded veteran squad.

Full Inquisition detachment might work?
Iron Arm on that Terminator would be insane and then stack that with other buffs from other psykers...

I was wondering about putting the whole formation into a Land Raider. Is there a rule stating that bikes or Jump Infantry cannot embark? Don't have my BRB in front of me right now.

I briefly saw that stats for the deathwatch squad today.

From what I saw the the squad was made up of the footslogger who werent the termy guy. I believe they were like 175 points for what were essentially different weapon wielding sternguard? I am wondering how they compare to a squad of Sternguard.

I think the Librarian could pick his two biomancy powers or am I remembering that wrong?

Can they only be taking as their own mini codex or are they folded into space marine codexes?

 Tibs Ironblood wrote:
I briefly saw that stats for the deathwatch squad today.

From what I saw the the squad was made up of the footslogger who werent the termy guy. I believe they were like 175 points for what were essentially different weapon wielding sternguard? I am wondering how they compare to a squad of Sternguard.

I think the Librarian could pick his two biomancy powers or am I remembering that wrong?

Can they only be taking as their own mini codex or are they folded into space marine codexes?

They are their own Deathwatch force, they cannot be folded into other marine codexes but they can ally with any of them. I don't believe the Librarian can pick his own powers either. I know he only has access to Biomancy though.

I got a look at the guys and to be honest I think they are pretty crappy tbh.

The two HQs are kinda pointless. In both cases compared to their stock versions (or in the libs case a mastery lvl 2 librarian) you pay 5 points for special ammunition, but lose your chapter tactics.

Squad Donatus to me just comes across as a worse sternguard squad. Its just sternguard stats with mixed wargear and no chapter tactics. If you take and load out a sternguard squad to be as close to this set up as possible it runs you at 165 points and thats using a missle launcher for the frag cannon.

So just on that basis you to take the squad you give up chapter tactics and instead gain a mixed bonuses from each guy in the squad which dont really seem worth the loss of the superior chapter tactics from ultramarines or imperial fists. Then when we factor in that 25 points of that squad are spent on a power sword and bolt pistol we start to see why its kinda lame. If you want to use the (IMO) solid assault cannon you cant get in close, but if you dont get in close you cant use your space wolfy meele guy or your power sword.

I think a case can be made for the salamander terminator as one man enforcer to tie someone up or lay down some anti hoard or vehicle firepower with his very solid weapon load out. Sadly only one wound though.

The jump pack guys are just worse sternguard vets. Their only advantage is that they are independent.

The Biker I think has his uses as he is a cheap homer for termy deepstrikes and for a biker sarge to be loaded out the same as him it would cost 51 points (assuming the homer was 5 points) to his 40.

So overall IMO from what we currently have they are not worth running if you are trying to play to win and make a good - optimal list using them. They just dont bring it. I personally like the termy and the biker, but I see the HQs and the donatus squad as a tax to get them and sadly that tax aint worth it.

Now if my friends at my FLGS would let me take them as part of a SM CAD........

 Tibs Ironblood wrote:
I got a look at the guys and to be honest I think they are pretty crappy tbh.

The two HQs are kinda pointless. In both cases compared to their stock versions (or in the libs case a mastery lvl 2 librarian) you pay 5 points for special ammunition, but lose your chapter tactics.

Squad Donatus to me just comes across as a worse sternguard squad. Its just sternguard stats with mixed wargear and no chapter tactics. If you take and load out a sternguard squad to be as close to this set up as possible it runs you at 165 points and thats using a missle launcher for the frag cannon.

So just on that basis you to take the squad you give up chapter tactics and instead gain a mixed bonuses from each guy in the squad which dont really seem worth the loss of the superior chapter tactics from ultramarines or imperial fists. Then when we factor in that 25 points of that squad are spent on a power sword and bolt pistol we start to see why its kinda lame. If you want to use the (IMO) solid assault cannon you cant get in close, but if you dont get in close you cant use your space wolfy meele guy or your power sword.

I think a case can be made for the salamander terminator as one man enforcer to tie someone up or lay down some anti hoard or vehicle firepower with his very solid weapon load out. Sadly only one wound though.

The jump pack guys are just worse sternguard vets. Their only advantage is that they are independent.

The Biker I think has his uses as he is a cheap homer for termy deepstrikes and for a biker sarge to be loaded out the same as him it would cost 51 points (assuming the homer was 5 points) to his 40.

So overall IMO from what we currently have they are not worth running if you are trying to play to win and make a good - optimal list using them. They just dont bring it. I personally like the termy and the biker, but I see the HQs and the donatus squad as a tax to get them and sadly that tax aint worth it.

Now if my friends at my FLGS would let me take them as part of a SM CAD........

How much would the HQ's actually get from Chapter Tactics? I'm not sure they lose all that much. Squad Donatus, on the other hand, does lose out on them. Their weapon loadouts are kind of janky too, very schizophrenic, so I see your point there. I also agree on the terminator, he's pretty good really, although he's probably going to be a suicide one-off attacker. As for the jumpers, where do you read that they are independent? I didn't see that on the dataslate thingy, which makes me think they have to be one man units and therefore not worth taking as they are way too squishy for the points. The biker is not bad, although in my lists he's unnecessary since I already have Ravenwing.

I intend to split the box set with a friend, with him taking the genestealer cult and me taking the Deathwatch, as I absolutely LOVE the models! I might use them in casual games, although like Tibs said above they are not very good so I will not be taking them to tournaments. I was considering taking either the whole formation or just the squad and the librarian in an allied detachment and attaching Azrael to them for the 4++ lolz!

@ Zerg

I meant independent as in they are just one man units. Good for back capping objectives and distracting enemy forces. I should have been more clear on that originally. Thats my bad.

Um, why would you not want to get close with the frag cannon? It's an assault weapon and has a template mode, and the solid-shell is like 24" range.

Would have been something if all members of this were at lest 2 wounds. And maybe up the WS and BS on a few to make them tougher or harder to kill. Yes that would up the points but I would be cool with that.

HQ's 3 or 4 wounds
Jump guys 2
Term 3
Bike 2 or 3
Squad 2 wounds per man,

 TheCrusadeSmurf wrote:
Looking at the Deathwatch rules, I'd honestly just ignore the Formation as it hinders 4 models.

Having models with multiple move rates is not the worst thing ever.

It lets you do some creative leapfrogging when possible, so long as you keep within 2". You can move that jump pack from one end of the unit to the other side to help close on your target.

The formation has some very nice advantages, namely the special rules that are shared by the entire formation.
* Stubborn
* Counter Attack
* Zealot
* Split Fire
* Hit and Run
* Stealth
* Shrouded until turn 2
* Heroic Intervention (ignore disorganized charge, fleet charge)
* Fearless
* Wall of Death (heavy flamer, hand flamer)
* Automatically pass dangerous terrain tests (from skilled rider)

While it's not a 'game breaking' formation, there it has possibilities, since any IC joining them gets that wealth of special rules.

 ZergSmasher wrote:
I was wondering about putting the whole formation into a Land Raider. Is there a rule stating that bikes or Jump Infantry cannot embark? Don't have my BRB in front of me right now.

They would not fit. 11 members in the squad, 2 of them are bulky and one is very bulky.

 Tibs Ironblood wrote:
The two HQs are kinda pointless. In both cases compared to their stock versions (or in the libs case a mastery lvl 2 librarian) you pay 5 points for special ammunition, but lose your chapter tactics.

Depending on your army, you can pass chapter tactics back to them. For example, hit and run confers. Is the 5 point ammo worth it? Meh. Maybe.

 Tibs Ironblood wrote:
Squad Donatus to me just comes across as a worse sternguard squad. Its just sternguard stats with mixed wargear and no chapter tactics. If you take and load out a sternguard squad to be as close to this set up as possible it runs you at 165 points and thats using a missle launcher for the frag cannon.

The frag cannon beats the pants out of any missile launcher. That weapon is complete boss.
I agree that the squad is overpriced, but the weapon is complete boss.

 labmouse42 wrote:

 ZergSmasher wrote:
I was wondering about putting the whole formation into a Land Raider. Is there a rule stating that bikes or Jump Infantry cannot embark? Don't have my BRB in front of me right now.

They would not fit. 11 members in the squad, 2 of them are bulky and one is very bulky.

Are you sure they wouldn't fit in a LR Crusader? It has 16 spaces. 11 men, +1 for each Bulky (total 13 now), +2 for Very Bulky (total 15). Looks like they fit to me. Whether or not this is actually a good plan is another question entirely...

 labmouse42 wrote:
While it's not a 'game breaking' formation, there it has possibilities, since any IC joining them gets that wealth of special rules.

As I said above, Azrael FTW! Give that whole blob a 4++! Another good one would be Ezekiel, as he gives them +1 attack. Yet another good choice would be Tigurius, as he can roll for Invisibility and usually get it. I'm actually starting to be excited for the formation now that I understand that the whole shebang gets all those great special rules!

 ZergSmasher wrote:
Are you sure they wouldn't fit in a LR Crusader? It has 16 spaces. 11 men, +1 for each Bulky (total 13 now), +2 for Very Bulky (total 15). Looks like they fit to me. Whether or not this is actually a good plan is another question entirely...

Good catch. I guess you could put them in one. A LRC would greatly increase the chances of them getting into assault, and the squad is actually quite good at assault!

 ZergSmasher wrote:
As I said above, Azrael FTW! Give that whole blob a 4++! Another good one would be Ezekiel, as he gives them +1 attack. Yet another good choice would be Tigurius, as he can roll for Invisibility and usually get it. I'm actually starting to be excited for the formation now that I understand that the whole shebang gets all those great special rules!

Yep. I've been thinking of other ways to make it work. I don't think it will be Tier 1 good, but there are some neat combos you can do.

Can Bikes even load into a Land Raider Crusader? I am pretty sure it is Infantry only. That would also exclude the Jump Pack Space Marines as well.

Correct. A transport can only carry unit type (infantry) unless either the transport or the unit say different (like the Stormraven).

You're essentially buying Donatus for the Frag Cannon. Given that, and the plasma pistol, they really, really need to be at short range. Combined with Power Armour and infantry movement, walking is suicide. Therefore a Drop Pod from some other detachment is the order of the day.

locarno24 wrote:
Correct. A transport can only carry unit type (infantry) unless either the transport or the unit say different (like the Stormraven).

You're essentially buying Donatus for the Frag Cannon. Given that, and the plasma pistol, they really, really need to be at short range. Combined with Power Armour and infantry movement, walking is suicide. Therefore a Drop Pod from some other detachment is the order of the day.

Absolutely. Drop Pod with the Frag Cannon will be nice. Add in some of the other stuff the Marines have, they aren't a bad suicide squad.

The rules really make it better, but yea lack of delivery means youd really need to take advantage of movement trickery to disperse wounds, and stay alive. Now the way I read it for the formation is it is a unit, therefore it would remove the ability of others to deep strike. Am I missing something there?

No, all the members of the unit need to have the Deep Strike special rule in order to use it. Only the salamander with the terminator armor can DS, and if you take him separately, you can't take the full formation because they are all unique characters.

You could ally a Draigo or other psyker with Gate of Infinity and effectively move them all over the place.

A friend made a review on the Deathwatch rules, thought it maybe appropriate for the thread:

I made a fun 1850 list with a CAD of my Dark Angels and an Allied Detachment of Deathwatch. When I get my Deathwatch guys I'll probably give it a try. I'll basically make a mini-Deathstar of the Deathwatch squad and librarian, along with Ezekiel for +1 attack and Azrael for a 4++. I'll put them in a Land Raider so that they can jump out, shoot, and then charge. Azzy's 4++ will help keep the Land Raider from getting blown up or immobilized. I can post the full list I made if anyone's interested (I probably will post it over in the Army Lists section of the forums). It's not tournament worthy by any stretch of the imagination; just something fun I might try out in casual play.