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Hey all. This is my attempt at a competitive army without Knights. We have gotten into playing without knights lately (we usually play either both players bring one or neither does, for that I have a list with a wraithknight in it.)


CAD:

135 Skyrunner Farseer: Singing Spear, Spirit Stone
120 Skyrunner Farseer: Singing Spear

239 Guardian Defenders x11: shuriken cannon platform, wave serpent w/ TL Scatter Lasers + Shuriken Cannon
239 Guardian Defenders x11: shuriken cannon platform, wave serpent w/ TL Scatter Lasers + Shuriken Cannon
150 Guardian Windriders x5: Skyrunner Warlock Leader w/ Singing Spear

160 Crimson Hunter Exarch
140 Crimson Hunter

140 Warwalkers x2: 4x Bright Lances

Aspect Host:

162 Warp spiders x8: includes exarch
162 Warp spiders x8: includes exarch
213 Dark Reapers x6: includes exarch, All models have reaper launchers with starshot missiles

1850pts

The two farseers jet around with the windriders and buff the guardians and aspect host while casting fortune and conceal on themselves. The windriders provide protection for the farseers via extra wounds and the conceal power from the warlock. They are also dangerous close range in the shooting phase with 3 singing spears to throw or 16 pseudo rending shots from the underslung catapults. The catapults come in handy!

The guardians are basically kamikaze units. When they are guided by a farseer I have found that they can make their points back pretty easily, especially if they shoot at a 'doomed' target. This includes wraithknights, riptides and greater daemons. Usually they can just go unit for unit with something much more expensive. If they survive being out of the wave serpent for a turn they jump into cover(ifnot already in cover) or into combat to make the most of obSec.

The warp spiders would start on the field unless I'm against skyhammer or something.

I'm concerned with my lack of turn 1 damage potential the only thing I could think to do would be to replace the crimson hunters but then I have a the problem of having nothing good for taking on flyers. Suggestions?

If going for the competitive edge I would recommend dropping the Warwalkers in favor of a third Crimson Hunter. Transfer from CAD to Crimson Death and you've scaled the defensive value of your high AP well.

Personally I'm not a huge fan of Guardians nor Dark Reapers - but if they fulfill an important role in your meta than carry on. It would seem appropriate to slap on either Holofields or Ghostwalks onto your Serpents however.

If already taking guardians and war walkers? why not go for the guardian formation?

The guardian formation is cool really cool but I don't have anything that really benefits from matchless agility enough for it to be worth it. I also wouldn't be able to give my farseers a cheap jetbike retinue! The main reason for the CAD over the guardian formation is OS though. I have 5 OS units which is key because I play a lot of maelstrom missions.

Edit: I like the idea of going for the crimson death formation. The warwalkers would be an easy swap. But maybe the farseer would be better? That way my first turn damage output won't suffer but I'll lose a lot of buff potential

 Rx8Speed wrote:
239 Guardian Defenders x11: shuriken cannon platform, wave serpent w/ TL Scatter Lasers + Shuriken Cannon
239 Guardian Defenders x11: shuriken cannon platform, wave serpent w/ TL Scatter Lasers + Shuriken Cannon

As mentioned, going with a guardian formation really helps here, as it gives free points!
Normally I would not take wave serpents in a foot list. If you are going to, take your wave serpents as part of your aspect host to give them BS5.

 Rx8Speed wrote:
150 Guardian Windriders x5: Skyrunner Warlock Leader w/ Singing Spear

Is the reason for no scatter lasers because you expect this unit to be targeted every round and be forced to jink?

 Rx8Speed wrote:
160 Crimson Hunter Exarch
140 Crimson Hunter

140 Warwalkers x2: 4x Bright Lances

I would expect your crimson hunters, warp spiders, and spears to be all the anti-tank you need. I would just put scatter lasers on these.

 Rx8Speed wrote:
162 Warp spiders x8: includes exarch
162 Warp spiders x8: includes exarch
213 Dark Reapers x6: includes exarch, All models have reaper launchers with starshot missiles

Keep your reapers bare bones. They are expensive enough already, and making them cost more will just make them more juicy for your opponent. They are great as is -- your anti-bike unit.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Rx8Speed wrote:
The guardian formation is cool really cool but I don't have anything that really benefits from matchless agility enough for it to be worth it. I also wouldn't be able to give my farseers a cheap jetbike retinue! The main reason for the CAD over the guardian formation is OS though. I have 5 OS units which is key because I play a lot of maelstrom missions.

I've been using the pale host formation for matchless agility, for a while now, and I've found it much more useful than OS. Matchless agility combos very well with battle focus, giving your guardians a guaranteed 24" range on their cats.

That said, avengers are much, much better than guardians if you are just looking for shuriken fire. They get even better if you can shoehorn them into an avenger shrine or even aspect host.

You can save some points on the reapers by just dropping one model from the unit. Takes it down the 180 and it still has crazy amount of teeth whether shooting at bikes, light armor or MC. I would probably say the psychic buffs your farseer can give you outweigh the brightlances of the war walkers. If you want to do crimson death, drop the warwalkers. Your crimson hunters can take the bright lances your warwalked left and do that same duty. I always had decent results with my guardians. I tended to drop the platforms when I had them mounted in serpents though. If you can find 70 points throw a warlock with each unit to fill the transport and make them oodles better with runes of battle. Better armor, cover or taking away a good armor save/cover save is clutch and could get them farther than without - just a thought though. I also run solo fields AND ghostwalk on all of my serpents. I have lost 3 games recently because my damn serpents got immobilized the end of turn 6 or 7. DON'T LOSE GAMES DUE TO IMMOBILIZED...Spend the 10 points on ghostwalk a least. If you want to skip holo fields, fair enough. Nice to have a save at least versus ignores cover stuff...damn tau

Anywho, my 2 cents. Hope it helped.