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Made in us
Tunneling Trygon





NJ

I'm trying to figure out if there are any shenanigans to be had with joining an IC from the genestealer cult to a Tyranid unit.

The rule in question is attached. When an IC from this formation joins a unit of say, genestealers. They infiltrate.

A) Do the genestealers gain stealth and shrouded?

B) Do the genestealers adopt the ability to charge after infiltration?

C) If it was the other way around (Tyranid IC with broodkin unit from this formation) would the answers to A or B change?
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Made in us
Not as Good as a Minion





Astonished of Heck

 luke1705 wrote:
The rule in question is attached. When an IC from this formation joins a unit of say, genestealers. They infiltrate.

Only if the IC already has Infiltrate, remember.

 luke1705 wrote:
A) Do the genestealers gain stealth and shrouded?

If the Genestealers are not from this formation, no. This only affects units from this formation. Pretty clear.

 luke1705 wrote:
B) Do the genestealers adopt the ability to charge after infiltration?

Same as 1 for the exact same reason.

 luke1705 wrote:
C) If it was the other way around (Tyranid IC with broodkin unit from this formation) would the answers to A or B change?

If the Genestealers are from this Formation, and the IC is not, it would work, as they ARE units from this formation and the IC is part of this unit.

It should be noted that outside of Warlord Traits, the 'Nids do not have much in the way of ICs, much less any with Infiltrate, so wouldn't normally be able to join an IC to a unit capable of doing this from this Formation in deployment. And that's assuming questions of Tyranid/Genestealer Cult Ally Status are cleared as Battle Brothers.

Are you a Wolf, a Sheep, or a Hound?
Megavolt wrote:They called me crazy…they called me insane…THEY CALLED ME LOONEY!! and boy, were they right.
 
   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut





The Golden Throne

ICs would confer shrouded, but that's it. The rest of the special rule refers directly to the formation's special rule.
   
Made in nz
Scarred Ultramarine Tyrannic War Veteran




Ankh Morpork

 Byte wrote:
ICs would confer shrouded, but that's it. The rest of the special rule refers directly to the formation's special rule.


This is debatable - the requirement is that the unit be a Ghosar Quintus Broodkin unit (that deployed using the Infiltrate special rule) and many consider a scenario where the IC is joined to a non-Ghosar Quintus Broodkin that IC would not count as a Ghosar Quintus Broodkin unit (due to counting as part of the non-GQB unit for all rules purposes, per the IC rules), thus not having the Shrouded rule.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/03/07 05:21:01


 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




 Mr. Shine wrote:
 Byte wrote:
ICs would confer shrouded, but that's it. The rest of the special rule refers directly to the formation's special rule.


This is debatable - the requirement is that the unit be a Ghosar Quintus Broodkin unit (that deployed using the Infiltrate special rule) and many consider a scenario where the IC is joined to a non-Ghosar Quintus Broodkin that IC would not count as a Ghosar Quintus Broodkin unit (due to counting as part of the non-GQB unit for all rules purposes, per the IC rules), thus not having the Shrouded rule.


It is the ongoing debate of whether IC's lose their "unit" status when joined with another unit.

   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut





The Golden Throne

Welcome to the debate of battle-brothers.

If the IC were killed in a different unit would it still count as a destroyed IC? Could the IC still be challenged? Can the IC leave the unit during the moivement phase? I think we know the answers. It's really not that complicated. Debate on if you choose.
   
Made in nz
Longtime Dakkanaut





Auckland, NZ

At the very least, the ICs would grant Stealth, as the formation gives that (along with infiltrate) to all models.

The shrouded and turn 1 charge bit is certainly debatable.
   
Made in nz
Scarred Ultramarine Tyrannic War Veteran




Ankh Morpork

 Byte wrote:
If the IC were killed in a different unit would it still count as a destroyed IC? Could the IC still be challenged? Can the IC leave the unit during the moivement phase? I think we know the answers. It's really not that complicated. Debate on if you choose.


I'm not sure how these questions relate to the debate on whether an Independent Character retains its own Faction/status as a unit in and of itself while part of another unit for all rules purposes, given they're to do with the model simply having the Independent Character rule.
   
Made in us
Not as Good as a Minion





Astonished of Heck

Byte wrote:ICs would confer shrouded, but that's it. The rest of the special rule refers directly to the formation's special rule.

If the IC possessed Shrouded on its own, yes, but this rule applies it to the unit, and so long as the IC is joined to another unit, it is not operating as its own unit, so it doesn't get Shrouded.

If we could find rules that allowed the IC to be recognized as a unit within a unit, that would change, but the ramifications of that would be things like focusing Shooting on that IC and being able unable to Look Out Sir! Not a path I'm willing to tread.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/03/07 06:55:29


Are you a Wolf, a Sheep, or a Hound?
Megavolt wrote:They called me crazy…they called me insane…THEY CALLED ME LOONEY!! and boy, were they right.
 
   
 
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