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So I was browsing and I had a thought: What would a hive world dedicated to chaos be like? Would it be even worse than an imperial one? Could such a thing exist without demons breaking down the walls of reality or everyone somehow dying?

The Iron Warrior's current homeworld in the Eye comes pretty close. It's one giant, daemon powered factory dedicated to fueling the IW war machine. People are just cogs in the machine, often literally, since they're used as components for machines or literally fed to daemon engines.

Basically, it's more painful but less boring than a normal hive world, and it'll probably be over quicker.

The problem with most chaos stuff is the lack of practical nature. For example, people have to be able to reproduce. The gloom and doom of fluff where people are worked to death constantly die in the thousands may be fine for a while but there has to be a new humans created. Sure you can argue slaves but they have have worlds, which are clearly shown in the fluff, you need people to be able to reproduce naturally. That's not something you can do if you are being worked to death constantly. I imagine it would be an interesting dichotomy to explain the differences between a hive world in the Imperium and a chaos held planet but ultimately people need time to eat drink fall in love and reproduce to continue the population.

 buddha wrote:
The problem with most chaos stuff is the lack of practical nature. For example, people have to be able to reproduce. The gloom and doom of fluff where people are worked to death constantly die in the thousands may be fine for a while but there has to be a new humans created. Sure you can argue slaves but they have have worlds, which are clearly shown in the fluff, you need people to be able to reproduce naturally. That's not something you can do if you are being worked to death constantly. I imagine it would be an interesting dichotomy to explain the differences between a hive world in the Imperium and a chaos held planet but ultimately people need time to eat drink fall in love and reproduce to continue the population.

Not if you have huge rooms dedicated purely to breeding and popping out babies, or regularly scheduled ritualistic orgies. Makin' babies is not hard to do. Given that the Iron Warriors had a big daemon engine dedicated to "birthing" more Chaos Space Marines, I'm sure it wouldn't be to tough for Chaos worshippers to come up with a similar kind of automated way to birth more plain ol' humans.

http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Daemonculaba

Chaos only sounds impractical to you because you're trying to apply normal physical laws to a realm where normal physical laws don't apply. Time doesn't flow in a straight line in the Warp. It's chaotic. So a slave who doesn't meet a grisly end could live for tens of thousands of years without growing old and a woman could be impregnated, develop the baby in the womb, and conceive in a matter of minutes.

 fallinq wrote:

 buddha wrote:
The problem with most chaos stuff is the lack of practical nature. For example, people have to be able to reproduce. The gloom and doom of fluff where people are worked to death constantly die in the thousands may be fine for a while but there has to be a new humans created. Sure you can argue slaves but they have have worlds, which are clearly shown in the fluff, you need people to be able to reproduce naturally. That's not something you can do if you are being worked to death constantly. I imagine it would be an interesting dichotomy to explain the differences between a hive world in the Imperium and a chaos held planet but ultimately people need time to eat drink fall in love and reproduce to continue the population.

Not if you have huge rooms dedicated purely to breeding and popping out babies, or regularly scheduled ritualistic orgies. Makin' babies is not hard to do. Given that the Iron Warriors had a big daemon engine dedicated to "birthing" more Chaos Space Marines, I'm sure it wouldn't be to tough for Chaos worshippers to come up with a similar kind of automated way to birth more plain ol' humans.

http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Daemonculaba

Chaos only sounds impractical to you because you're trying to apply normal physical laws to a realm where normal physical laws don't apply. Time doesn't flow in a straight line in the Warp. It's chaotic. So a slave who doesn't meet a grisly end could live for tens of thousands of years without growing old and a woman could be impregnated, develop the baby in the womb, and conceive in a matter of minutes.

Exactly. There are a thousand and one ways for Chaos worlds to keep their heards stocked... not many of them involve falling in love I'd wager. The problem isn't the impracticality of nature in their Chaos fluff, it's that GW has to keep their uber grimdark setting family friendly (and focused on the whole war aspect, for their wargames).

The breeding pits are just to the left of the skinning pits.

 Gordon Shumway wrote:
The breeding pits are just to the left of the skinning pits.

Don't mix up the two. The skinning pits are significantly less fun.

 fallinq wrote:

 Gordon Shumway wrote:
The breeding pits are just to the left of the skinning pits.

Don't mix up the two. The skinning pits are significantly less fun.

Unless you're into that kinda thing, of course...

They survive quite well.


They bring in slaves, so people do get to exist. You probably get fed less lucky slaves. You spend your days building chaos daemon engines, building temples for the great gods, being a stool for a chaos marine. Or being turned into food.

It's probably only just worse than being on an imperial world, probably better if you embrace chaos and become an enforcer.

Not all chaos dedication would be the ravening tentacle end of days thing.

I would imagine there are worlds where cults are ingrained part of society, especially Tzeentchian, Slaaneshi and undivided/minor powers hold dominance, but military cultures under the sway of khorne would be entirely plausible.

They would degenerate over years, centuries, millennia, but the great crusade uncovered many cultures, human and xenos, that served the ruinous forces.

I'd think http://www.archdaily.com/30114/slave-city-atelier-van-lieshout comes pretty close to how a hive city would work, add in some chaosy shrines and disregard for environment and human lives and its all chaosed.

 buddha wrote:
The problem with most chaos stuff is the lack of practical nature. For example, people have to be able to reproduce. The gloom and doom of fluff where people are worked to death constantly die in the thousands may be fine for a while but there has to be a new humans created. Sure you can argue slaves but they have have worlds, which are clearly shown in the fluff, you need people to be able to reproduce naturally. That's not something you can do if you are being worked to death constantly. I imagine it would be an interesting dichotomy to explain the differences between a hive world in the Imperium and a chaos held planet but ultimately people need time to eat drink fall in love and reproduce to continue the population.

In the Warp, death may not be a career-ending injury.

hey, maybe as an exercise, what do you all think hive worlds just devoted to one of the pantheon would look like?

 Tiger9gamer wrote:
hey, maybe as an exercise, what do you all think hive worlds just devoted to one of the pantheon would look like?

Ooh! This is the kind of question I enjoy!

- Slaves manufacture every drug in the galaxy, including some really fun stuff that's double-super banned in the Imperium and full of warp juice. Sadistic overseers watch over them, maintaining order through punishments for disobedience that rival the Dark Eldar. These drugs are sold to other Slaanesh aligned groups and black markets across the galaxy. On the middle level, you have priesthoods dedicated to keeping Slaanesh's favor and brothels. Massive brothels. In the spires, the ruling class lives in comfortable decadence, the massive wealth from those toiling away below giving them access to every luxury and pleasure imaginable, and a few unimaginable.

- They make weapons. Chainswords, superheavy tanks, daemon engines, you name it. Operate on a class system under strict, martial rules. If you want to move up in society, you do so through ritual combat. Thus, the higher you go in the hive, the more physically strong the people are. Lower levels are full of the weak, who are once again, slaves. However, you can always claw your way free of slave status on the bodies of your rivals. Higher up are the enforcer class. But the real cream of the crop form small private armies, who fight in constant battles and skirmishes in the upper sections of the spire for dominance. The winning clan of the week/month/year lives in the spire, which they have to defend from all the rival warlord clans. Have you ever played a King of the Hill scenario in a FPS? It's like that, all the time. The spire is the Hill, and all the elites want to be king.

:- Machievellian on steroids. The entire hive is a mazework of secret societies, plotting and scheming. Even the lowest drone is a member of several shadowy organizations. The society has a million complex, labrynthian rules, but the number one rule is don't get caught. Everyone's engaging in a social Darwinist struggle to get to the top, but unlike on the Khorne hive world, it's all in the shadows. In public, everyone is very civil, nice, and polite in a highly formalized way. But everyone is plotting to put a knife in someone else's back. The spire elite a sorcerous masterminds, who operate elaborate networks of spies on every level of society, maintaining their holdings through assassination and intrigue. Enforcers are powerful mutants, with adaptions that make them inhumanly good in a fight. Manufacturing is centered around forbidden technology, strange chemicals and alloys, and other bizarre items. Doesn't make as much stuff as the other hive worlds, but what they make is EXTREMELY rare and valuable, and fetches VERY high prices.

I'll do Nurgle after I've had time to think about it.

 Anfauglir wrote:

 fallinq wrote:

 Gordon Shumway wrote:
The breeding pits are just to the left of the skinning pits.

Don't mix up the two. The skinning pits are significantly less fun.

Unless you're into that kinda thing, of course...

We're not here to judge, man . . .

 fallinq wrote:

- Slaves manufacture every drug in the galaxy, including some really fun stuff that's double-super banned in the Imperium and full of warp juice. Sadistic overseers watch over them, maintaining order through punishments for disobedience that rival the Dark Eldar. These drugs are sold to other Slaanesh aligned groups and black markets across the galaxy. On the middle level, you have priesthoods dedicated to keeping Slaanesh's favor and brothels. Massive brothels. In the spires, the ruling class lives in comfortable decadence, the massive wealth from those toiling away below giving them access to every luxury and pleasure imaginable, and a few unimaginable.

Do the slaves get to feel Slaanesh's pleasures? If so then they will happily toil away until they explode in a firework of painpleasure. Which honestly sounds better than most IOM hive world endings

 JustALittleOrkish wrote:

 fallinq wrote:

- Slaves manufacture every drug in the galaxy, including some really fun stuff that's double-super banned in the Imperium and full of warp juice. Sadistic overseers watch over them, maintaining order through punishments for disobedience that rival the Dark Eldar. These drugs are sold to other Slaanesh aligned groups and black markets across the galaxy. On the middle level, you have priesthoods dedicated to keeping Slaanesh's favor and brothels. Massive brothels. In the spires, the ruling class lives in comfortable decadence, the massive wealth from those toiling away below giving them access to every luxury and pleasure imaginable, and a few unimaginable.

Do the slaves get to feel Slaanesh's pleasures? If so then they will happily toil away until they explode in a firework of painpleasure. Which honestly sounds better than most IOM hive world endings

Well, they're probably high all the time from all the fumes that the manufacturing process pumps into the air, and some of them probably get into the pain, whether because there's so much Slaanesh influence everywhere or just as a coping mechanism.

So relative to the slow, plodding march towards death that is being a worker in an Imperial hive, yes, it may actually be preferable.

Ferrozoica in the Annett novel Necropolis is a good example of the damage a hive fallen to chaos can do.

- This is a hive world in ruin. The outer shells of the hives, designed to keep the planet's toxic atmosphere out, is rusted, pitted, and crumbling. Massive breaches cause the polluted air of the surface to pour in. The closer to the outside a resident of the hive lives, the more diseased, mutated, and twisted they are. A majority of the worlds' factories are in disrepair. Those that haven't been completely abandoned and stripped down for scrap are collapsing around the workers within. Nuclear reactors leak radiation, machines malfunction regularly, sometimes with lethal results, and disease is rampant. Most of the planet's manufacturing is just endlessly recycling material to keep the hives running, and with the raw material getting more diluted and corrupted each time it runs through the system. Some weapons are sold offworld, but only to other Nurgle worshippers or the particularly desperate or insane, since they are universally contaminated in some dreadful way. Tanks and artillery produced here are surprisingly sturdy and reliable, despite their ramshackle and filthy appearance, but the most prized things to be purchased by outsiders are the incredibly lethal chemical and biological weapons produced in the planet's choicest and most deadly factories. These are sold to various warlords and members of the Dark Mechanicus, who send envoys down sealed in protective suits, as any other contact with the toxic air and disease ridden inhabitants would prove fatal to anyone not already touched by Father Nurgle. The planet's overlords still reside in the spire, although it has shattered and split open long ago. These creatures barely resemble humans anymore, as the pollution in the atmosphere has risen above the spire, making them more exposed than their underlings. All but the toughest and most dedicated to Nurgle have died. These twisted beings journey below occasionally to collect their tithes still. The wretches in the hive provide payment, not out of fear of punishment, but in the hope that the masters of the spire will grant them their touch. Anyone touched by these decaying nobles is given gifts from Nurgle. Barren women (an epidemic problem on the planet) will suddenly bear large litters of unusually resilient mutant babies. Missing limbs regenerate, stronger and more twisted. Broken technology screams back to life and continues working when it should not be capable of doing so.

To outsiders, this world looks like the worst sort of hell. Yet, if one were to look past the filth, decay, disease, and ugliness, one would see that it is surprisingly peaceful. There are no enforcers here. There is a general lawlessness, but most hive dwellers are quite friendly with each other, and go about their business with a stoic attitude and black sense of humor. There is little crime, as there is nothing that is worth stealing. Nor are workers subjected to backbreaking labor that drags them to an early grave. They do their business at a leisurely pace. There are no factory overseers. Labor is done on a voluntary, cooperative basis, and workers make only what they need to survive and curry favor with the overlords in the spire.

 fallinq wrote:
- This is a hive world in ruin. The outer shells of the hives, designed to keep the planet's toxic atmosphere out, is rusted, pitted, and crumbling. Massive breaches cause the polluted air of the surface to pour in. The closer to the outside a resident of the hive lives, the more diseased, mutated, and twisted they are. A majority of the worlds' factories are in disrepair. Those that haven't been completely abandoned and stripped down for scrap are collapsing around the workers within. Nuclear reactors leak radiation, machines malfunction regularly, sometimes with lethal results, and disease is rampant. Most of the planet's manufacturing is just endlessly recycling material to keep the hives running, and with the raw material getting more diluted and corrupted each time it runs through the system. Some weapons are sold offworld, but only to other Nurgle worshippers or the particularly desperate or insane, since they are universally contaminated in some dreadful way. Tanks and artillery produced here are surprisingly sturdy and reliable, despite their ramshackle and filthy appearance, but the most prized things to be purchased by outsiders are the incredibly lethal chemical and biological weapons produced in the planet's choicest and most deadly factories. These are sold to various warlords and members of the Dark Mechanicus, who send envoys down sealed in protective suits, as any other contact with the toxic air and disease ridden inhabitants would prove fatal to anyone not already touched by Father Nurgle. The planet's overlords still reside in the spire, although it has shattered and split open long ago. These creatures barely resemble humans anymore, as the pollution in the atmosphere has risen above the spire, making them more exposed than their underlings. All but the toughest and most dedicated to Nurgle have died. These twisted beings journey below occasionally to collect their tithes still. The wretches in the hive provide payment, not out of fear of punishment, but in the hope that the masters of the spire will grant them their touch. Anyone touched by these decaying nobles is given gifts from Nurgle. Barren women (an epidemic problem on the planet) will suddenly bear large litters of unusually resilient mutant babies. Missing limbs regenerate, stronger and more twisted. Broken technology screams back to life and continues working when it should not be capable of doing so.

To outsiders, this world looks like the worst sort of hell. Yet, if one were to look past the filth, decay, disease, and ugliness, one would see that it is surprisingly peaceful. There are no enforcers here. There is a general lawlessness, but most hive dwellers are quite friendly with each other, and go about their business with a stoic attitude and black sense of humor. There is little crime, as there is nothing that is worth stealing. Nor are workers subjected to backbreaking labor that drags them to an early grave. They do their business at a leisurely pace. There are no factory overseers. Labor is done on a voluntary, cooperative basis, and workers make only what they need to survive and curry favor with the overlords in the spire.

that was surprisingly accurate.

of course nurgle gets the biggest idea dump. Still, well done!

I wonder if there are imperial cults in the cities like there may be chaos cults in imperial hive cities...

 Tiger9gamer wrote:
of course nurgle gets the biggest idea dump. Still, well done!

I wonder if there are imperial cults in the cities like there may be chaos cults in imperial hive cities...

Thanks! Yeah, I think as the fluff stands now, Nurgle tends to be the most interesting of the Chaos gods, because he and his followers are portrayed as being more complex than just EVIL. Tzeentch has his moments too, but mostly the other gods are portrayed kind of simplistically. I think it would be nice if they all had more of their "good" aspects given play like Nurgle.

As for your second question, Medrengard, the new homeworld of the Iron Warriors, actually had a really weird Imperial Cult in the form of the Unfleshed. They were defective attempts to build new Chaos Space Marines, who got pitched into the sewers because they were made with no skin. Some of them survived and started an Imperial Cult, because they had implanted memories of the Emperor. Then they all probably died. I'm not overly fond of McNeill's characterizations, but he does have some VERY cool lore ideas.

http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Unfleshed

Anyway, I imagine that Imperial Cults and resistance cells are probably fairly common on Chaos Hives that used to be under Imperial control, and could also be possible on any Chaos Hive where Imperial missionaries or other loyalist forces have managed to make contact.

I honestly think a Chaos Hive World would simply be a Hive World that Lacks the Ecclesiarchy, Inquisition and Arbites. Chaos runs rampant on most Hive Worlds already, all you're really going to see is those that actually embrace it become a lot more open. And even then, it can't be too open as a lot of people would still believe in the GoM and all the Churchy stuff, so the leaders lie and make everything look normal.

The novels Hammer of daemons and daemon world give examples of life on a Daemon world.

Life is barely any worse then on the average imperial hive world for the average man.

In one of the tanith novels they infiltrated a chaos occupied world the population were kept alive to work but still had homes familys just everything was decaying as no resources were used to maintain the civilian infrastucture it was all dedicated to military production.

there were a small resistance movement but very poorly equipped and trained as anybody who had were the first taken out during the initial invasion

fallinq wrote:

 Tiger9gamer wrote:
hey, maybe as an exercise, what do you all think hive worlds just devoted to one of the pantheon would look like?

Ooh! This is the kind of question I enjoy!

- Slaves manufacture every drug in the galaxy, including some really fun stuff that's double-super banned in the Imperium and full of warp juice. Sadistic overseers watch over them, maintaining order through punishments for disobedience that rival the Dark Eldar. These drugs are sold to other Slaanesh aligned groups and black markets across the galaxy. On the middle level, you have priesthoods dedicated to keeping Slaanesh's favor and brothels. Massive brothels. In the spires, the ruling class lives in comfortable decadence, the massive wealth from those toiling away below giving them access to every luxury and pleasure imaginable, and a few unimaginable.

- They make weapons. Chainswords, superheavy tanks, daemon engines, you name it. Operate on a class system under strict, martial rules. If you want to move up in society, you do so through ritual combat. Thus, the higher you go in the hive, the more physically strong the people are. Lower levels are full of the weak, who are once again, slaves. However, you can always claw your way free of slave status on the bodies of your rivals. Higher up are the enforcer class. But the real cream of the crop form small private armies, who fight in constant battles and skirmishes in the upper sections of the spire for dominance. The winning clan of the week/month/year lives in the spire, which they have to defend from all the rival warlord clans. Have you ever played a King of the Hill scenario in a FPS? It's like that, all the time. The spire is the Hill, and all the elites want to be king.

:- Machievellian on steroids. The entire hive is a mazework of secret societies, plotting and scheming. Even the lowest drone is a member of several shadowy organizations. The society has a million complex, labrynthian rules, but the number one rule is don't get caught. Everyone's engaging in a social Darwinist struggle to get to the top, but unlike on the Khorne hive world, it's all in the shadows. In public, everyone is very civil, nice, and polite in a highly formalized way. But everyone is plotting to put a knife in someone else's back. The spire elite a sorcerous masterminds, who operate elaborate networks of spies on every level of society, maintaining their holdings through assassination and intrigue. Enforcers are powerful mutants, with adaptions that make them inhumanly good in a fight. Manufacturing is centered around forbidden technology, strange chemicals and alloys, and other bizarre items. Doesn't make as much stuff as the other hive worlds, but what they make is EXTREMELY rare and valuable, and fetches VERY high prices.

I'll do Nurgle after I've had time to think about it.

fallinq wrote: - This is a hive world in ruin. The outer shells of the hives, designed to keep the planet's toxic atmosphere out, is rusted, pitted, and crumbling. Massive breaches cause the polluted air of the surface to pour in. The closer to the outside a resident of the hive lives, the more diseased, mutated, and twisted they are. A majority of the worlds' factories are in disrepair. Those that haven't been completely abandoned and stripped down for scrap are collapsing around the workers within. Nuclear reactors leak radiation, machines malfunction regularly, sometimes with lethal results, and disease is rampant. Most of the planet's manufacturing is just endlessly recycling material to keep the hives running, and with the raw material getting more diluted and corrupted each time it runs through the system. Some weapons are sold offworld, but only to other Nurgle worshippers or the particularly desperate or insane, since they are universally contaminated in some dreadful way. Tanks and artillery produced here are surprisingly sturdy and reliable, despite their ramshackle and filthy appearance, but the most prized things to be purchased by outsiders are the incredibly lethal chemical and biological weapons produced in the planet's choicest and most deadly factories. These are sold to various warlords and members of the Dark Mechanicus, who send envoys down sealed in protective suits, as any other contact with the toxic air and disease ridden inhabitants would prove fatal to anyone not already touched by Father Nurgle. The planet's overlords still reside in the spire, although it has shattered and split open long ago. These creatures barely resemble humans anymore, as the pollution in the atmosphere has risen above the spire, making them more exposed than their underlings. All but the toughest and most dedicated to Nurgle have died. These twisted beings journey below occasionally to collect their tithes still. The wretches in the hive provide payment, not out of fear of punishment, but in the hope that the masters of the spire will grant them their touch. Anyone touched by these decaying nobles is given gifts from Nurgle. Barren women (an epidemic problem on the planet) will suddenly bear large litters of unusually resilient mutant babies. Missing limbs regenerate, stronger and more twisted. Broken technology screams back to life and continues working when it should not be capable of doing so.

To outsiders, this world looks like the worst sort of hell. Yet, if one were to look past the filth, decay, disease, and ugliness, one would see that it is surprisingly peaceful. There are no enforcers here. There is a general lawlessness, but most hive dwellers are quite friendly with each other, and go about their business with a stoic attitude and black sense of humor. There is little crime, as there is nothing that is worth stealing. Nor are workers subjected to backbreaking labor that drags them to an early grave. They do their business at a leisurely pace. There are no factory overseers. Labor is done on a voluntary, cooperative basis, and workers make only what they need to survive and curry favor with the overlords in the spire.

That was awesome. Thank you.

Awesome thread! The next Dark Heresy adventure I GM will be set on a planet that is slowly changing over to Slaanesh by infiltration and religion rather than by war. And it has quite recently passed the breaking point where practically all of the higher echelons of the planet are true believers. I'll try to do it subtly, avoid the most obvious markers and present it as completely reasonable to the players who will be enforcers for the government.

Background: Over the last generations the church and political landscape has gone through a reformation: The temples are refurbished in festive purple and gold to honor "The Emperor Celebrant", who is very concerned with his subjects happines. Changes to the holy days include better food, more free soft drugs and dancing. Less focus on punishment and austerity. This is generally considered awesome by the population. Just as appreciated is the new and much more liberal legislation on many social issues.

Plot: Unfortunately a reactionary traditionalist theocratic group is stuck in the mindset of the 39th milennium, and they want to limit peoples enthusiasm and freedom. (these are of course those who still believes in the Emperor of the Imperium, and I'll try to frame them somewhere between conservative american rightwing christians and Daesh). And now the enforcers suspect this group is planning an act of terrorism to interrupt the highly popular new holiday Carnival of the Emperors Descent [insert going-down-joke here] that is celebrated half a year from the more traditional Emperors Ascension to prepare for the day when he (or she, or zie: the new inclusive theology claims that we mortals should not limit the glory of the Emperor by using only one gender or pronoun) finally steps down from the throne to walk among the blessed humanity again.

The PCs are sent to infiltrate and investigate this dangerous group or religious extremists.

In short the theme will be to explore exactly how fascist the IoM is, and to honestly try to present Slaanesh as a reasonable pleasant ideology.

Mellon, this is not bad at all, I was just writing my next DH game, which will be set in a hive world being conquered by Chaos.
Going to see if I can go without an armed revolution, but with a softer story, like your one !

 godardc wrote:
Mellon, this is not bad at all, I was just writing my next DH game, which will be set in a hive world being conquered by Chaos.
Going to see if I can go without an armed revolution, but with a softer story, like your one !

Glad I can be an inspiration!
Let us know how it works out :-)