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Seems the guy is doing the best he can with the models GW has available, but the fluff doesn't seem to fit quite right. Now, I really doubt I'll ever build this full army as it's around $700 USD when all components are bought (and that's without buying proper shoulder pads). But, what do you think of this idea? Has he got the right idea? Maybe something that could be cut down some and used as allies from the Deathwatch?

http://www.spikeybits.com/2015/10/how-to-play-an-army-of-deathwatch-using-space-marines.html

Thanks

SG

The problem with the idea of a Deathwatch "army" is, as cool as it would be, and I would love to see them get more love on the tabletop, Deathwatch rarely deploy more than a handful of marines at a time (Kill Teams). That's really all they need, though. If a situation is so dire that they are sending a full "company" of Deathwatch, the Ordo Xenos would likely rather bombard the area from orbit first before sending in that many valuable assets.

 EnTyme wrote:
The problem with the idea of a Deathwatch "army" is, as cool as it would be, and I would love to see them get more love on the tabletop, Deathwatch rarely deploy more than a handful of marines at a time (Kill Teams). That's really all they need, though. If a situation is so dire that they are sending a full "company" of Deathwatch, the Ordo Xenos would likely rather bombard the area from orbit first before sending in that many valuable assets.

That I do understand, but having a couple of Kill Teams doesn't seem to excessive. Keepers are kind of where I begin to wonder. They only stay around the keep to make sure the members of the Deatwatch at the Keep don't wander into a room they shouldn't or protecting the keep from a particularly nasty Xenos. So, I just don't seem them on the field. Plus, keepers have a specific dress code that can't really be found anywhere but Dark Angels models.

That said, two to three kills and possibly a little 1st company support (Terminators) as allies to say an Imperium army (Space Marines, Dark Angels, Blood Angels, Imperial Guard, etc.) doesn't seem all that unlikely... or am I way off?

Thanks

SG

A Deathwatch Kill Team is 1-2 squads of Tac Marines with special equipment, a Captain or Librarian in command, maybe a Dreadnought in support, and just enough transport to get them there.

An entire army is not supported in the fluff.

An entire chapter using those tactics and equipment? Strong maybe.

SJ

I can see them evolving into an Eldar Corsair-esque ally faction. As far as the keepers go, I've never seen them mentioned in fluff. Deathwatch Kill Teams are a bit more complex than the squads presented in CSM. It's almost unheard of for an entire Kill Team to be made up of the same "role" (Assault Marines, Tacs, Devs, etc.). They usually have a little bit of everything. Look at the composition of Kill Team Cassius from the Overkill game. You have a Chaplain, a Librarian, a Terminator, an attack bike, two Vanguard, a Devastaor, a Company Champion, and several Sternguard. This is honestly what most Kill Teams look like in the fluff. All they're really missing is an Apothecary.

Wouldn't you be able to do roughly a full 2k army with a full inquisition load out, the kill team and possible some space marine added like scouts and dreadnoughts?

There has been times in fluff where companies worth of Deathwatch have been deployed.

Mostly against Tyranids however.

For the sake of Fluff I would only ever use one First Company Taskforce as usually when a threat escalades beyond a handful of kill teams, one of the actual chapters is called in to fight off the aliens.

However I disagree with the other choices, as they seem to purely bring in stuff that you'd like to have but can't take in the First Company Taskforce. The Watch Captain, in particular, is usually a sergeant of the kill team squad rather than an independent character, so even if the statline is correct, thematically it doesn't fit to have him as an independent character. Librarius Conclave though does make sense.

For the rest of the army, I would bulk it out with Inquisitorial units led by a Xenos inquisitor; that seems far more appropriate. A Deathwatch Army should never exceed 1000 points imo.

 EnTyme wrote:
Deathwatch Kill Teams are a bit more complex than the squads presented in CSM. It's almost unheard of for an entire Kill Team to be made up of the same "role" (Assault Marines, Tacs, Devs, etc.). They usually have a little bit of everything. Look at the composition of Kill Team Cassius from the Overkill game. You have a Chaplain, a Librarian, a Terminator, an attack bike, two Vanguard, a Devastaor, a Company Champion, and several Sternguard. This is honestly what most Kill Teams look like in the fluff. All they're really missing is an Apothecary.

I understand all of this, and I appreciate all the help that you all have given me. I've been doing some research into the Deathwatch since Overkill came out, and it seems there really has to be a way to bring a Deathwatch force to the table. While I haven't had the pleasure of reading any of the Deathwatch short stories or novels, I have been digging into each role in a Deathwatch Watch Station, and it just seems that going up against say Tau or Tyranids especially, bringing in more than just one Kill Team seems like common sense. I mean, I wouldn't go overboard and bring like 10 of them. But, two to three Kill Teams doesn't seem like it would be out of the ordinary. I really don't want to push the group over 1000 points, but a couple of librarians, Kill Team Cassius and... well, this is where it gets a little tough. How do I create the remaining one to two Deathwatch Kill Teams? While Deathwatch Kill Teams do have several different roles, that can be accomplished through say one Sternguard squad and one Vanguard squad. Granted, you wouldn't have the Terminator, the Chaplain, the Biker, or the Librarian, but the role of Chaplain and Librarian can be accomplished different ways. It seems Sternguard and Vanguard have enough weapon choices to allow them to make up a couple of Kill Teams with sufficiently varied roles. The only real downside I see is with Vanguard or Assault squads, either everyone uses Jump Packs, or no one does (though I understand from a movement perspective why they'd have to). Forming a CAD wouldn't be too difficult as Deathwatch does also have Scouts. So...

HQ: Librarian and Chaplain
Troops: 2 x 5 Scouts
Elites: 5 Sternguard, 5 Vanguard
Allies: Kill Team Cassius

What do you all think? Definitely still open to suggestions!

SG

I can't find any fluff reason at all to include scouts in a Deathwatch force.

 ServiceGames wrote:

 EnTyme wrote:
Deathwatch Kill Teams are a bit more complex than the squads presented in CSM. It's almost unheard of for an entire Kill Team to be made up of the same "role" (Assault Marines, Tacs, Devs, etc.). They usually have a little bit of everything. Look at the composition of Kill Team Cassius from the Overkill game. You have a Chaplain, a Librarian, a Terminator, an attack bike, two Vanguard, a Devastaor, a Company Champion, and several Sternguard. This is honestly what most Kill Teams look like in the fluff. All they're really missing is an Apothecary.

I understand all of this, and I appreciate all the help that you all have given me. I've been doing some research into the Deathwatch since Overkill came out, and it seems there really has to be a way to bring a Deathwatch force to the table. While I haven't had the pleasure of reading any of the Deathwatch short stories or novels, I have been digging into each role in a Deathwatch Watch Station, and it just seems that going up against say Tau or Tyranids especially, bringing in more than just one Kill Team seems like common sense. I mean, I wouldn't go overboard and bring like 10 of them. But, two to three Kill Teams doesn't seem like it would be out of the ordinary. I really don't want to push the group over 1000 points, but a couple of librarians, Kill Team Cassius and... well, this is where it gets a little tough. How do I create the remaining one to two Deathwatch Kill Teams? While Deathwatch Kill Teams do have several different roles, that can be accomplished through say one Sternguard squad and one Vanguard squad. Granted, you wouldn't have the Terminator, the Chaplain, the Biker, or the Librarian, but the role of Chaplain and Librarian can be accomplished different ways. It seems Sternguard and Vanguard have enough weapon choices to allow them to make up a couple of Kill Teams with sufficiently varied roles. The only real downside I see is with Vanguard or Assault squads, either everyone uses Jump Packs, or no one does (though I understand from a movement perspective why they'd have to). Forming a CAD wouldn't be too difficult as Deathwatch does also have Scouts. So...

HQ: Librarian and Chaplain
Troops: 2 x 5 Scouts
Elites: 5 Sternguard, 5 Vanguard
Allies: Kill Team Cassius

What do you all think? Definitely still open to suggestions!

SG

The fluff around Space Marines makes what they are on the table a joke. In the fluff, a Kill Team of 5 to 8 Deathwatch Marines is more than capable of shutting down an entire Tau Expeditionary Force, a well-entrenched Genestealer Cult, and a mid-sized WAAAGH... at the same time. In fact, if they deploy at 5AM local time, they should be back on the strike cruiser, mission complete, in time for lunch.

This is why you don't normally see more than 1 Kill Team deployed. In the fluff, it isn't necessary, and there simply aren't enough Space Marines to do that. There's only about a million Loyalist Space Marines in the entire galaxy, if a job can be done with 5, you don't send 15 as "insurance", you send the other 10 in two squads of 5 to other locations to complete other missions.

Truth. In fact, for many missions they just send a single Kill-Marine who deals with the issue and calls in reinforcements if the threat is more serious than anticipated.

Warden wrote:
I can't find any fluff reason at all to include scouts in a Deathwatch force.

Deathwatch Scout Armour - Based on the Scout Armour fielded by all Space Marine Chapters, Deathwatch Scout Armour is a lightweight, non-powered suit of armour modified by Watch Fortress Erioch Deathwatch armourers specifically to suit the needs of their unique mission. Similar to the armour worn by sniper Scouts of Chapters like the Raven Guard, Deathwatch Scout Armour is composed of a hardened Ceramite chestplate that covers the Space Marine’s torso, shoulders and groin area worn over a reinforced body glove. Armoured, elbow-length gauntlets protect the wearer’s hands, while heavily reinforced, Ceramite-toed Grox-hide boots keep his feet safe and dry. Since Deathwatch Scout Armour is essentially a half-suit over a form-fitted body glove, and is made of light materials, it does not hinder the wearer’s movement and allows him to retain his natural agility and stealthiness while still providing excellent protection. This armour is often worn in conjunction with Cameleoline Cloaks.

Deathwatch Kill-marine - A Deathwatch Kill-marine is a specially trained Battle-Brother, skilled in solo operations, who is sent to investigate and exterminate where possible or to call in backup where it is truly needed. Not every xenos-related threat demands the full deployment of a Kill-team, but many seemingly inconsequential incidents can be harbingers of a greater threat that it would be unwise to ignore. Under these circumstances, a Watch Captain will deploy these lone Kill-marines to carry out their sacred duty. Scout Sergeants often make superlative Deathwatch Kill-marines with little additional training but these specialists are drawn from all the ranks of the Deathwatch as needed. A certain independence of thought and great personal strength of spirit are in many ways more important than exceptional stealth skills for a Kill-marine, for they must possess the right temperament to operate for long periods of time cut off from their kind and from their Chapter. Kill-marines spend time living alongside those they must ultimately defend, sharing their trials and seeing the world through their eyes.

The above two sections of this page the following Wiki page lead me to believe that Deathwatch definitely have scouts. Not all Kill-Marines are scouts, but it seems that some would be. Though, I could be misinterpreting. http://warhammer40k.wikia.com/wiki/Deathwatch

SG

You don't have 'scouts' per se, but Deathwatch Veterans are perfectly capable of using Scout armour, just as many will be trained in the use of Terminator Plate.

They will deploy in either as the situation warrants; you're unlikely to see marines in both as part of the same force, but the same kill-team might deploy in scout armour to sneak into a base, or in terminator plate loaded for bear if the plan is to 'go in noisy'. It all depends on the mission objectives.

locarno24 wrote:
You don't have 'scouts' per se, but Deathwatch Veterans are perfectly capable of using Scout armour, just as many will be trained in the use of Terminator Plate.

They will deploy in either as the situation warrants; you're unlikely to see marines in both as part of the same force, but the same kill-team might deploy in scout armour to sneak into a base, or in terminator plate loaded for bear if the plan is to 'go in noisy'. It all depends on the mission objectives.

Agreed. Scouts might not represent neophytes or newly inducted marines, but simply Marines in Scout Armour. And with the same BS and WS as their power armoured brethren, there's no reason not to.

My Deathwatch list is based around:

1st Company Taskforce (Sternguard, Vanguard, Terminators)
Librarius Conclave (Librarians for each squad)
Reclusiam Command Squad (Chaplain and kitted out Command Squad)
Allied Detachment of:
-Captain
-Scout Squad (with LSS)
-Venerable Dreadnought
-Stormraven Gunship

All with IF or Red Hunters CT.

All models have high movement speed, bar the Termies, who Deep Strike where they are needed most.
Vanguard have JPs, Sternguard and Dreadnought go in the Stormraven, Scouts go in the LSS, and Command Squad have to take a Razorback.

Sorted. A large Kill Team, but valid. If I had to, I'd shrink the team to just Scouts, Sternguard, Librarian/Captain and Stormraven.

 Sgt_Smudge wrote:
My Deathwatch list is based around:

1st Company Taskforce (Sternguard, Vanguard, Terminators)
Librarius Conclave (Librarians for each squad)
Reclusiam Command Squad (Chaplain and kitted out Command Squad)
Allied Detachment of:
-Captain
-Scout Squad (with LSS)
-Venerable Dreadnought
-Stormraven Gunship

All with IF or Red Hunters CT.

All models have high movement speed, bar the Termies, who Deep Strike where they are needed most.
Vanguard have JPs, Sternguard and Dreadnought go in the Stormraven, Scouts go in the LSS, and Command Squad have to take a Razorback.

Sorted. A large Kill Team, but valid. If I had to, I'd shrink the team to just Scouts, Sternguard, Librarian/Captain and Stormraven.

I appreciate you showing me your list. It gives me some good ideas of how I might want to organize my hopeful Deatwatch in the future.

Thanks again!

SG

The Deathwatch doesn't have Scouts because it doesn't have Initiates. One does not go from "regular human kid" to "Member of the Deathwatch Chapter". The Deathwatch recruits all of its members from other, pre-existing Chapters for a limited-time tour of duty.

Sometimes, Marines will join the Deathwatch permanently, because their home Chapters have been destroyed, or they are the last surviving loyalist of a Chapter that turned Renegade, or because they, themselves, went renegade and are now returning to the Imperial fold, and will use their service in the Deathwatch as a means to wash the stain from their honor (this is one possible source for Blackshields).

Of course, the DW can use carapace armor for stealth ops or any other time where power armor is not practical or tactically-sound, but they don't have Scouts in the normal sense of a Space Marine Chapter.