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I have hit a dilemma recently that got me thinking on this topic so I thought I'd poll for a Dakka consensus. Well, an updated one because there are older threads on this.

My own situation is that I have a friend who is an exceptionally skilled professional artist that made a Castellon Crowe for me as a gift. It's gorgeous, but I have little use for the actual rules behind Crowe. I'd love to use the Crowe model as a Malleus Inquisitor with power armor and a daemonblade since the gear load out is about right and Crowe has the same sized base, but I wonder if people/tournaments would reject that.

So what are your thoughts on the great proxy debate, everyone?

Every situation is different. In your case, absolutely, and I'd doubt that anyone would have any issues, as it sounds WYSIWYG anyways.

Also, in reference to the poll option, you should always get a list for your opponent and get one from them in every game. Never hurts to have a second set of eyes look things over.

For proxies and counts as, I'm more concerned with how cool it is, how easy it is to recognize, and any internal consistency to reduce confusion.

Remember a distinction should always be made between proxies and 'count as' therefore the poll really is not accurate

A converted model/ alternate sculpt that has the appropriate wargear, base size and model size will be widely accepted so long as this is mentioned in advance as to what it represents. Many TO's will allow you to use said model and make previsions for these 'counts as' requesting images to see if they adhere to the requirements I mentioned previously, proxies are usually not allowed.

Casual play comes down to a player by player basis, either way ensure your opponent knows what the 'proxy'/'counts as' represents

I use a slightly modded (changed the plasma pistal for a combi-melta) lord krannon as a aspiring champion, I say as long as the model looks like what it's supposed to be, it's fine.

Proxies should not be allowed in tourneys. If you don't have a chaos knight, don't bring a wraithknight model.

'Count As' is different. If you have made a cool chaos conversion, they should be allowed to bring it. I use scourges modeled as swooping hawks for my hawks -- because they are better models.

Many players think they are the actual hawk models, and noone has ever complained because it's a good 'counts as'.

I think it depends on how you describe proxy.

running your ork boy as your Nob, sure in casual games why not, so long as you can tell him apart from the other boys

running a suped-up grot in special armor as your runt herd or warboss, YES! it's cool and awesome!

running your LRBTs w/o the barrel in as demolishers, yeah. shorter barrel, stands out from other versions, no issues.

As long as it's clear to both players what is what then there shouldn't be a problem.
In tournaments I can understand them being a bit stricter. But if it was down to me I'd still allow them, with the caveat that some effort must be put into making your model look like what it is representing. The reason being these are a bit more of a show case event and the table looks better without unpainted models or plastic toy shop dinosaurs counting as Tyranids ( for example)

I would say yes for casual so long as you know what is what. For tournaments if its a cool conversion, sticking to an army theme, or special weapons (these three squads have 2 meltas each and the fourth has a single flamer standing in as a melts) I am ok with it. Now if every special weapon is being proxied no but just 1 or 2 sure. Not always easy to get all the actual special weapon models you need when you only get one a box.

Audustum wrote:
I have hit a dilemma recently that got me thinking on this topic so I thought I'd poll for a Dakka consensus. Well, an updated one because there are older threads on this.

My own situation is that I have a friend who is an exceptionally skilled professional artist that made a Castellon Crowe for me as a gift. It's gorgeous, but I have little use for the actual rules behind Crowe. I'd love to use the Crowe model as a Malleus Inquisitor with power armor and a daemonblade since the gear load out is about right and Crowe has the same sized base, but I wonder if people/tournaments would reject that.

So what are your thoughts on the great proxy debate, everyone?

I would be ok with this as long as you don't create a confusing situation such as fielding an other crowe model and using it as crowe
Most tournaments have strict definitions for proxies you might want to look up those rules for tournaments you like to attend.

I feel like wysiwyg is a good rule to go by, but if you've something small that isn't wysiwyg and inform your opponent of the problem beforehand than I think you're golden.

I feel the same about proxies and counts as. Inform them, and don't give them a reason to think your trying to bend the rules for an advantage.

My guess would be that most of your opponents would not notice it. Crowe is not that famous of a model, and he does have a big I on his shoulder pad and all. So they might just have believed you when you told them that it was an power armoured inquisitor.

I'm using ork shootas as kroot. according to GW's own (admittedlty archaic) rules, I'm fine as I am still using 50%+ GW models in my 'conversions'.

It helps that they are a larger and more durable model than kroot, and my army's 'fluff' supports their inclusion - space forces. (Kroot couldn't survive, orks just wonder why they don't make any noise)

I've been trying to figure out a way to use Arkhan the Black in my Necron army. I think he'd make a kickass Nightbringer if his base wasn't so freaking big.

As long as it's of reasonable dimensions to model in your list, and I have your list, I don't care when or what you proxy.

I would rather play the game with all players being able to use what they want, rather than what they have, than not play.

 EnTyme wrote:
I've been trying to figure out a way to use Arkhan the Black in my Necron army. I think he'd make a kickass Nightbringer if his base wasn't so freaking big.

overlord in catacomb command barge?

I'd be perfectly okay with the OP's case. I'd actually like to see a pic of that converted Crowe model! I love good conversions!

As for proxies in general, I say go for it in casual play, but please don't in tournament play. Way back when I first started playing in tournaments we had a guy that played Orks. He had a number of models (Rhinos, Leman Russes, etc.) that he proxied as his Trukks, and two Land Raiders that he proxied as Battlewagons. He also had an odd assortment of DV Deathwing Termies and other models proxied in as his Meganobz. Now I was okay with it because he was a cool guy, and being only 17 probably didn't have the money for the proper models (he borrowed many, if not all, of those vehicles from his older brother). Other people surely would not have been okay with it at all. These days I don't know that I would be okay with it outside of casual play.

 ZergSmasher wrote:
I'd be perfectly okay with the OP's case. I'd actually like to see a pic of that converted Crowe model! I love good conversions!

As for proxies in general, I say go for it in casual play, but please don't in tournament play. Way back when I first started playing in tournaments we had a guy that played Orks. He had a number of models (Rhinos, Leman Russes, etc.) that he proxied as his Trukks, and two Land Raiders that he proxied as Battlewagons. He also had an odd assortment of DV Deathwing Termies and other models proxied in as his Meganobz. Now I was okay with it because he was a cool guy, and being only 17 probably didn't have the money for the proper models (he borrowed many, if not all, of those vehicles from his older brother). Other people surely would not have been okay with it at all. These days I don't know that I would be okay with it outside of casual play.

orks are a special exception, in that they are allowed to proxy. There are the looted rules for anyone who wants to check them out. then also, as long as he ripped the heads off the terminators and replaced them with ork heads, that would be fine as well. . . as long as he walked me through what was what beforehand.

Yeah, I make a big distinction between proxies and "Counts-as". Proxies are just stand-ins for other models, regardless of what they are.

But when you are doing a "Counts as", it's usually with some effort and forethought, as you are making a custom figure that will give the impression of the real model, but with your own personal spin.

I say within reason, but as I don't play Tournaments I can't really chime in.

Generally I don't care as long as the model looks suitably good and is within the ballpark of the proxied model's size.

But bring me something that's clearly lazy, like a lone bolter marine from DV and tell me it's your Chapter Master with Relic Blade and Artificer Armor, I will put a boot up your ass. Both figuratively and literally.

It comes down to what's reasonable. I'm currently doing a lot of casual proxying with my 30k stuff because I only have the closest 40k equivelents in most cases, and some stuff doesnt even have models (like my Tyrant Siege Terminators.) But, even at a tourney, Id be cool with some stuff, such as using a LR Reedemer as a Crusader, or a bolter as a Combi-weapon. Those are "within reason'" and really should not mess with your opponent. YMMV, HIWPI, ect.