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In looking at GW's miniatures I have noted that there appears to be rather large stylistic differences in appearance between fantasy models from the 1990's and more recent models. It appears that the models from the earlier era have a more "cartoonish" feel to them, whereas the current ones are much more grimdark.

I was wondering whether this change was purposeful (in terms of the older ones always appeared to be like this, even at the time) or whether it reflects changing perspectives (kind of like clothes from the 1990’s may have looked good back then but now not so much, with the change being more to do with the fashion of the day).

What are people’s thoughts? I personally much prefer the current models but don’t know whether this is inherently due to their nature, or rather because that is a current fashion.

I actually prefer the older more cartoonish models metal versions only though. Old plastics were horrible even alot of there multi part plastic kits. The oop 4th edtion metal models are so beautiful and its nice when your models have some weight to them. GW is coming out with amazingly beautiful sculpts right now but they just dont have the right feel to me. Every model is individual and takes some real strategy to rank up. Old metals though alot of the time you get multiples of the same sculpt have a nostalgic feel and just look better ranked up (my opinion only.)

I agree, my old metal High Elves look so much better than the new style plastics in my opinion. I am not a fan of the changes in the sculpting style that they are currently producing. Don't get me wrong, the new plastics are great looking, but just not my taste.

What do you mean by 'less cartoony is grimdark'?

I see it as a progression. An uneven kind of progression, because of the different styles and abilities of different sculptors, and the differences between casting metal and casting plastic. When I look at sites like the Stuff of Legends and Lost Minis Wiki, and blogs about the early days of Citadel, I see new guys, without a lot of experience or training, feeling their way into a fairly new market, and sculpting for castability. Basic poses, chunky details, and so on. Even the work of big names like Jes Goodwin and the Perry brothers seemed sort of tentative and unsure, compared to their more recent achievements. I mean, compare this 1970s Perry dragon to this 2010s Perry dragon. Better anatomy, better posing, better detailing, just more plain expertise and finesse.
I don't pretend to to know the history of every sculptor who worked for GW, or even most of 'em, but that's how the general impression seems to me. Old names gaining experience*, new names hired, and training programs started. I would say that Rackham bursting onto the scene shook them up and made them up their game, too.

*Some of them. I see sculptors still stuck with their crude styles of twenty years ago, or longer, who seem to trade on their names and nostalgia than anything else.

So I'd have to agree with Gunsmith that, even before Rackham, some of the old, metal high elf figures from the late 90s still hold up very well today. Not because of style or 'character' but because they're just well done. Gary Morley's white lions stick out in my mind. Though I find Jes Goodwin's old metal infantry oddly stiff and mechanical, with big hands and feet, and the Prince George pose.

Which kind of ties in with plastic development at GW. It's a somewhat different discipline that seems to have brought sculptors back to square one. As far as I can see, there were the pretty chunky, low-detail, monopose plastics first, like the plastic versions of said HE infantry. Then multipart plastics that were a step forward, but in some ways, a step back. Monkey-dog clanrats, Chaos marauders with incomprehensible shoulders (in fact, shoulders overall!), cold ones that look like a rugby ball with a head, limbs and things sticking out at all angles that make ranking tricky business. And HE infantry still have giant hands and feet.

(To be frank, considering your other recent topic Hasdrubalsbrother, IMO that's where Mantic's fantasy is, plastic or otherwise. Not specifically bad rats and giant-hand elves, but iffy designs, poor sculpting, and uninspired multiparts)

So I'd have to disagree that the latest plastics are missing something, compared to most older minis. I think CAD sculpting gave their plastics a big boost, in finer detail and in the ability to cut some figures up for best casting. Like the frankly amazing Nurgle champion and wight king minis. (I don't know if it was strictly necessary, but I think it did give them that boost) One of their first CAD kits, IIRC, the rat ogres - they create the same impression as both early metals and early plastics: fairly basic poses and chunky, low detail. But see what came along in the IoB box, with a little experience and talent.
And on that note, getting back to HE infantry again, compare the seaguard to older plastics, even older metals. Still some concessions to undercuts, but the proportions, posing and detail are a lot better. Look at little things like the way the hands grip the spears, even. Compared to older hands - big, almost square blocks, every one with a rigid perpendicular grip, every knuckle and joint on every finger perfectly lined up. The former's so much more natural.

Still sticking with the IoB box, I'd say the third big boost was Seb Perbett. Granted, he introduced a fairly cartoony style, but at least you could properly call it a style! Deliberately designed, developed from knowledge and experience, rather than yesterday's result of inexperience or tiptoeing around perceived casting limitations. As far as I'm concerned he's the best thing to happen to skaven in decades. His other work isn't too shabby either.

Excellent post Vermis.

I started painting GW figures during 40k 2nd edition when the metal figures were fairly boring and the early days of plastics were single pose statues, more like board game pieces than miniatures. I mean the single pose Goff Orks in the game box were just so bad.

From my point of view, regardless of style which is subjective I guess, the revolution in multi-part plastics has opened up the possibility for customisation and conversion like never before. The almost limitless possibility in creativity has made the modelling side of the hobby so much more enjoyable.

The 2nd ed pushfits were a step back, even at the time. That starter set with the “I <3 my bolter” marines were worse in pretty much every way from the RTB01 marines.

Some of the issues with the old sculpts was restriction of the medium. Metal minis tended to be more 2 dimensional due to the casting process.

Personally I think 3rd was the best era. Techniques were up to speed, and the minis still had a lot of soul. You had the character of the model showing, but without a lot of the problems with the early stuff. Modern minis are technically excellent, but often seem soulless.

@Nevelon - That's most likely because they're multi-part and are geared more towards the shooting bolter, waving sword type of pose. I have to say, I greatly enjoyed assembling the latest iteration of the Tactical squad, because the little extras give you a bit more flexibility to come up with unique poses. If I had a wishlist from GW it would be for a sort of 'extras' pack that gave you a collection of all the little parts from the other sprues such as the kneeling legs, reverse gripped dagger and the fresh magazine hand - just a couple of sprues with a few bits to set your marines apart from the generic poses. Well, that and for them to do a tactical upgrade set for all the First Founding Chapters - but that'll never happen.

 Nevelon wrote:
The 2nd ed pushfits were a step back, even at the time. That starter set with the “I <3 my bolter” marines were worse in pretty much every way from the RTB01 marines.

Some of the issues with the old sculpts was restriction of the medium. Metal minis tended to be more 2 dimensional due to the casting process.

Personally I think 3rd was the best era. Techniques were up to speed, and the minis still had a lot of soul. You had the character of the model showing, but without a lot of the problems with the early stuff. Modern minis are technically excellent, but often seem soulless.

I started gaming only this last year, and I have for the most part sought out 1980s-1990s metal IG. They may not be the most proficiently sculpted, but many were absolutely charming.
I was hardly blind to the modern replacements, I chose to go and look in that era.

But on the other hand, my stuff wouldn't pass for many folk who want more realism, I'll readily accept.

i think that its partly due to sculptors making advances in techniques, tools etc, and the concurrent advance in technologies for casting, so whereas in the early 90s all the models in a set were just the same figure repeated over and over, in the simplest pose. whereas now, you can have the most intricate details in basically any pose you want.

Multipart disease. Models that are sculpted to carry or hold their weapons in the same manner that you slot an assault rifle into GIJoe's hand.

Compare to single part models, which most of the classics are. The single parters are a whole model, their grenades are on their belt and dont need to be glued there, so they look part of the mini, not tacked on.
They are posed carrying a specific weapon and so it looks like it has heft, or he is wielding it rather than it just being in his hand.

Modern single part minis can be just as good- see Dark Vengeance.

I think that a lot of modern miniatures (GW or otherwise) that are destined for use within a certain game or system seem more designed to fit in with a very specific ethos or look based on that system.

When I first got into GW back in the late '80s there seemed to be more separation between the games and systems themselves and the miniatures. In a lot of ways this lent itself to a more messy (and less homogeneous look).

I can see why companies go for more of a design language for their entire content (artwork / rules / miniatures / cards / dice etc.) as it makes for a more coherent look in these days of pushing the collecting aspect and punchy on-line marketing.

I can also see that this would appeal to a lot of people as many have striven over the years to build coherent forces for their games. However I do prefer the older style of sculpts as they seem to have a little more personality than more homogeneous looking (but admittedly beautifully sculpted and produced) modern minis.

I'm not saying that the new miniatures don't have personality and many of the multi-part kits give massive scope for customising poses and kit bashing. I guess it's like people who like older cars, they maybe aren't as capable or attractive as modern machinery but they have a certain personality that makes them more appealing to some.

OK, this turned into more words than I thought...

 =Angel= wrote:
Multipart disease. Models that are sculpted to carry or hold their weapons in the same manner that you slot an assault rifle into GIJoe's hand.

Compare to single part models, which most of the classics are. The single parters are a whole model, their grenades are on their belt and dont need to be glued there, so they look part of the mini, not tacked on.
They are posed carrying a specific weapon and so it looks like it has heft, or he is wielding it rather than it just being in his hand.

Modern single part minis can be just as good- see Dark Vengeance.

This is why I actually like the new, much maligned trend of going towards less posable kits, more multi-part than multi-pose. Much better posing than true multi-pose kits.

I like mono-pose for single models. The minis are generally posed more fluidly and coherently when the sculptor doesn’t need to worry about bits compatibility.

But for putting an army together, multipose is the way to go. Nothing quite as depressing as a regiment or squad all made up of the same 4 guys.

In an ideal world we get both. A few mono pose guys showcasing the unique perks of solid design, with multipart fillers adding different poses, even if not as coherent, to the squad. One of the perks of being an older gamer who has been at this for a while is that my army is built like that. For example, my sternguard squads have both the old metals and the new plastics. (plus some TWVs for flavor)

One problem with multi-parts is the lack of interaction between parts of the mini. For example, there is a SoB pulling the pin out of a grenade with her teeth. You don’t see that in multipart kits. You might get some hints on things similar. The sternguard kit came with a hand resting on the pommel of a sheathed sword. But that’s not quite on the level as Sister Badass getting ready to chuck a frag into a nest of heretics.

There as been a definite change with GW's style, but I'd say that 6th-7th edition fantasy was when they got the most "grimdark". post 6th-edition 40k and 8th edition Fantasy (as well as AoS) is where things went cartoony again. If you want to know what I mean, compare the new plastic Grey Seer to the old Warplock Jezzails and note how the Grey Seer basically has Doritos instead of fur (not to mention little remy on the pole).

The earlier ones were likely due to GW's own artists being still relatively new to the whole sculpting thing. You can definitely see their skills improve over time. It was around the 5th edition of 40k when GW switched from Greenstuff sculpting to digital sculpting, which allowed them to get a lot more detail into their models that were previously either impossible or unthinkable. In recent years though it seems they've been getting lazy, as you can see a lot of copy-pasting happening with some of their models (the BA Terminators are basically the original Space Hulk Terminators reposed, and all current iterations of the Broodlord and Patriarch are basically reposes and minor alterations of the Space Hulk Broodlord).