Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

This is my attempt to build a Codex of my own. And it's for one of the most noticeably missing forces in the 40k universe; The Lost And The Dammed. I know that the probable reason GW doesn't have a list for them is how potentially varied they are. And I also know that there is a Forge World list for them, and the Horus Hersey era Militia And Cults list too. So my aim is to bring the best elements of both of those lists together into a workable Codex Army. For fun and practice in rule writing.

The thing about my army is, the Chaos element is purely optional. Not all rogue elements encountered by the Imperial are going to be Chaos tainted. Some might be simple freedom fighters who want independence from the oppressive Imperium, whilst others might be xeno influenced. If I do this right, this army should be able to present a Genestealer influenced Cult as much as a Chaos one.

First of all, some core rules for the army as a whole:

Uncertain Worth: The first time a unit containing a model with this special rule is required to take a Leadership Test, roll a D6 and add 4. This result is the Leadership Value for all models in the unit with this special rule for the rest of the game. (Designers Notes: this is one of my favorite things about the forge world list. It's so characterful and makes every game different. So naturally I want to keep it for my own list).

Fanatical: Models with this special rule roll 2D6 and discard the lowest when generating their Leadership Value as a result of the Uncertain Worth special rule. Roll once for all models in a unit with this special rule. (Designers Notes: this obviously makes the random roll more reliable. Perfect for the true believer types).

Militarum Disciplina*: Models with this special rule gain +1 WS and +1 BS. (Designers Notes: this rule (military training in GW latin) helps to separate professionally trained troops from untrained rabble.)

Heretek*: Models with this special rule gain +1 to their Feel No Pain saves, gaining a 6+ Feel No Pain save if they do not already have one. (Designers Notes: Skitarii wannabes!)

Curse Of Mutation*: A random chart of benefits generated before deployment. Needs more work at present though. Could be caused by experimental gene splicing and environmental factors as much as chaos taint, so there's always room to take it.

* These will be upgrades for various units in the army.

Vox Casters: A unit containing a model equipped with a Vox Caster can reroll the dice when generating a Leadership Value as the result of the Uncertain Worth special rule, but must accept the second result.

OK, now for some unit ideas:

For troops I was thinking of having a unit made up of IG conscript level troops lead by a Champion who can then be upgraded with Cruse of Mutation, Heretek etc. Very basic but very versatile. Elites are units of Disciples, who are better fighters (start off as Guardsmen level, with the fanatical rule) and have more options. They can also be taken as a retinue for your HQ, like Space Marine command squads. Then there's the usual Ogyrns, Imperial and Chaos vehicles etc. Led by Demagogues:

HQ

Demagogue: The army leader(s). The ones who started the whole thing or are at least in close cahoots with the one(s) who did. They'll have a stat line like this:

WS:4 BS:4 S:3 T:3 W:3 I:4 A:3 LD:10

Unit Type: Infantry (character)
Special Rules: Independent Character

For wargear, I was thinking of a basic pistol, close combat weapon and flak armor for starters. Then you can give them Provenances of War (some of which will have restrictions) which will affect how the army is formed:

Mutant Master:

restriction: The Demagogue and a unit of disciples taken as this Demagogue's retinue must take the Curse Of Mutation upgrade.
benefits: All units in your army with the Curse Of Mutation upgrade gain the Fanatical special rule.

Heretek Magus:

restriction: The Demagogue and a unit of disciples taken as this Demagogue's retinue must take the Heretek upgarde.
benefits: All units in your army with the Heretek upgrade gain the Fanatical special rule.

Bloody-Handed Reaver:

restriction: The Demagogue and a unit of disciples taken as this Demagogue's retinue must take the Militarum Disciplina upgrade.
benefits: All units in your army with the Militarum Disciplina upgrade gain the Fanatical special rule.

These are just a basic outline though. I want to add more on top of that (for example, the Heretek Magus should turn into a sort of Techpriest in power armor who can repair vehicles etc, whilst the Bloody-Handed Reaver gains a sort of IG style Voice Of Command special rule).

One other thing I wanted to do was to combine lasguns and autoguns and their pistol equivalents into one catch all weapon for the simplicity of things. Call them heretic pistols/firearms and describe them as a variety of weapons of all sorts.

Oh, and this army needs Pyskers too. Lots of them! And the Chaos marks too.

It's all very basic at the moment, but what do you all think?

This honestly sounds like you took the Forgeworld Renegades and Heretics, and made it so that it makes a little bit more sense.

 dusara217 wrote:
This honestly sounds like you took the Forgeworld Renegades and Heretics, and made it so that it makes a little bit more sense.

Thank you! That's exactly what I set out to do!

Forge World make excellent models, but sometimes their rules can be a little crazy.

Here's an example of the basic troop unit. I decided to call them Renegade Fighters for now. Simple name, to reflect that they don't follow the Imperial Creed (renegades)...and they fight. But I'll probably change the name later. I didn't call them something like Rabble, because that's what their enemies would likely call them. I welcome all name suggestions too btw.

Renegade Fighter Squad: (30pts)

Renegade: WS:2 BS:2 S:3 T:3 W:1 I:3 A:1 LD:- SV:6+
Champion: WS:2 BS:2 S:3 T:3 W:1 I:3 A:1 LD:- SV:6+
Exalted Champion: WS:2 BS:2 S:3 T:3 W:1 I:3 A:2 LD:- SV:6+
Renegade Heavy Weapon Team: WS:2 BS:2 S:3 T:3 W:2 I:3 A:2 LD:- SV:6+

Unit Type: Infantry. Champions and Exalted Champions are Infantry (character).
Unit Composition: 1 Champion, 9 Renegades.
Wargear: Improvised Armour, Renegade Firearms, Frag Grenades.
Options:
May include up to forty additional Renegades (3pts each)
For every 10 models in the unit, you may replace two Renegades with a Renegade Heavy Weapon Team armed with a weapon chosen from the Renegade Heavy Weapon list.
For every 10 models in the unit, one renegade may replace their renegade firearm with a weapon chosen from the Renegade Special Weapons list.
Any model in the unit may replace their Renegade Firearm with a Renegade Sidearm. (free)
The entire squad may replace their improvised armor with flak armor (+1pt/model)
The entire squad may take any of the following:
- krak grenades (+1pt/model)
- camo gear (+2pts/model)
The entire squad may take any of the following Providences Of War:
Militarum Disciplina (+1pt/model)
Heretek (+2pts/model)
Curse Of Mutation (+2pts/model)
The entire squad may take a single Mark Of Chaos.
The Champion may be upgraded to an Exalted Champion (+10pts)
An Exalted Champion may take items from the ranged, melee and special issue wargear lists
The unit may take a Chimera as a dedicated transport.

Special Rules: Uncertain Worth

This is a WIP, incomplete version of what I have planned but I wanted to show it here to see what you guys think. And renegade firearms/sidearms are a catch all term for the various las, auto and stub guns they're going to be carrying, all of which have the same stats. For simplicity.

Thoughts?

The lost and the damned list is fine IMO. What, specifically are you interested in changing that's so crazy? No IA army list is anymore convoluted than most GW main formations.

 Powerfisting wrote:
The lost and the damned list is fine IMO. What, specifically are you interested in changing that's so crazy? No IA army list is anymore convoluted than most GW main formations.

It is fine as it is. I just think it could be a little better. Plus, I like writing rules and Codexes so I figured I tinker around with it for a bit of fun.

 Powerfisting wrote:
The lost and the damned list is fine IMO. What, specifically are you interested in changing that's so crazy? No IA army list is anymore convoluted than most GW main formations.

This is true, but there are things that don't make sense in it, though they are fewer and farther between than they would be in a GW Codex.
Also, @Powerfisting
You need to make it so that the exalted Champion and/or Champion has one better WS than the main members of the INfantry. They are supposed to be better at fighting than the rest of the rank and file, after all.

I guess I could improve the exalted champions stats. I was looking at space marine veteran sergeants for inspiration on what they have over the regular squad members. I also forgot to add the option for a vox caster for the unit. Whoops.

How about this statline for the exalted champion:

WS:2 BS:3 S:3 T:3 W:1 I:3 A:2 LD:-

With this statline, combined with the Miltarum Disciplina upgrade, an exalted champion would match an imperial guard veteran sergeant in their stats, which I think is appropriate. To compare the renegades to the IG, demagogues are senior officers, acolytes are the commanders, disciples are veterans, and renegades are the guardsmen/conscripts.

And here is my suggestion for a disciple unit:

Disciple Squad: (30pts)

Disciple: WS:2 BS:3 S:3 T:3 W:1 I:3 A:1 LD:- SV:6+
Exalted Champion: WS:2 BS:3 S:3 T:3 W:1 I:3 A:2 LD:- SV:6+

Unit Type: Infantry. Exalted Champions are Infantry (Character)
Unit Composition: 1 Exalted Champion, 4 Disciples.
Wargear: Improvised Armour, Renegade Firearms, Frag Grenades.
Options:
May include up to fifteen additional Disciples (5pts each)
Up to two disciples may replace their Renegade Firearm with a weapon chosen from the Renegade Special Weapons list. If the squad numbers 10 models or more then up to three disciples may replace their renegade firearm with a weapon chosen from the Renegade Specal Weapons list.
Any model in the unit may replace their Renegade Firearm with a Shotgun or Renegade Sidearm (free).
One disciple may take a vox caster (+5pts)
The entire squad may replace their improvised armour with one of the following:
- flak armour (+1pt/model)
- carapace armour (+2pts/model)
The entire squad may take any of the following:
- krak grenades (+1pt/model)
- camo gear (+2pts/model)
- melta bombs (+3pts/model)
The entire squad may take any of the following Providences Of War:
Militarum Disciplina (+1pt/model)
Heretek (+2pts/model)
Curse Of Mutation (+2pts/model)
The entire squad may take a single Mark Of Chaos.
The exalted champion may take items from the ranged, melee and special issue Wargear lists.
The unit may take a chimera as a dedicated transport.

Special Rules: Fanatical, Uncertain Worth.

So, better ballistic skill, better chance of decent leadership, more special weapons per head. Like IG vets sort off. What do you think?

I really think that changing the upgrades from point per unit to point per model will ruin renegades and heretics. Your format will encourage small units, where the existing one encourages large units. Large units is what renegades are all about. Lost and the Damned is technically already in Siege of Vraks, IA:5 Second edition. I believe the army had the largest representation at last years LVO. Its a really enjoyable army to play! Aside from some clerical errors in the codex, FW really knocked it out of the park with them!

You're right! It's better to charge on a unit by unit basis rather than a model by model one. I'll make that change, and make it so that it's better to buy in bulk as it where. To encourage big units.

I love the R&h lists, but two things annoy me.

Firstly they'res not enough ways to mix in CSM, I loved how in the old Lost & Damned list you could take cheap aspiring champions and put them in Renegade squads.
I've seen the Purge detachment being interpreted in a couple of ways, but it reads to me that you can mix CSM and R&H in the same detachment. I'd love to see the concept taken further and developed.

Secondly I hate how all of the force choices are dependent on g having the Arch-demagogue as your Warlord I feel like it just unnecessarily cuts down on the flexibility you have with the force.