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WarpFlame Host
- 11 Horrors
- 11 Horrors
- 11 Horrors
- 11 Horrors
- 11 Horrors
- Exalted Flamer
- Exalted Flamer
- Exalted Flamer
- Exalted Flamer
- Tzeentch Herald w/level 3 psyker, Locus of Conjuration, Disc

ForgeHost
- Soul Grinder of Tzeentch
- Soul Grinder of Tzeentch
- Soul Grinder of Tzeentch

Daemon Lords
- Fateweaver
- Lord of Change w/Impossible Robe and Lesser Reward

Summary
I ran this twice today, once vs a tier two list and once vs a tier one list. In both cases the list did extremely well, and I am highly impressed with the results. With a little bit of tweaking I think this can really hit hard and throw people for a loop.

Daemon Lords and Herald(s)
The idea is pretty simple, you use Fateweaver and the LoC to fly around blasting or summoning things, as your army gives you 20 psychic dice to play with. If you grab cursed earth on either Fateweaver or the LoC, you are rocking a 2++ and 3++, rerolling 1s. Your herald sits back and buffs your horrors with the Locus. I also used him to keep making more heralds one game.

Soul Grinders
The 'horror battery' is hard to break into. Three soul grinders helps to deter some assaults. The grinders are Tzeentch grinders because the upgrade is cheap, and rerolling the 1's gets even better when you play with 'Cursed Earth' shenanigans, or get that 10 on the warp storm table. This happens a lot more often than you would expect with Fateweaver and the Incursion Formation. In one turn I had 2 of them with a 3++ save that was getting rerolls one 1.

Exalted Flamer
Another deterrent to the 'Horror Battery' are the four exalted flamers. D3 STR 10, BS4 AP2 shots, or a STR 6, AP 3 torrent template are not things people generally want to get close to. Yes, they are 'heavy' weapons, so the flamer is usually just standing still in a horror squad while they dance around -- unless it is moving to reposition -- but they worked great for keeping the opponent from just rushing into the horrors and wiping out the batteries.

Horrors
The horrors themselves are actually a problem too. I know, we normally don't think of 'flickering fire' as a dangrous tool, but when you can toss two dice at it and get a 75% of casting 2d6 STR 7, BS3 shots -- it actually gets dangerous quickly. I used them to wreck through a VGS and glance AV 13 vehicles to death. Since that is all done in the psychic phase they can still run the rest of the squad.


Powers Used
I had the LoC and fateweaver running around casting. In both games rolled on the Change table once, and the other two rolled on demonology. It's just was to have a few blasts and then summon more models in. I might change it out for another good blast, and I did a lot of damage with the shooting. That's why he now has the minor reward, as it gives a 1/3 chance of a shooting attack for more harrasment.

Fatey is where the big nukes come in from. Bolt of change, firestorm, flicking fire, prismatic gaze. In addition I also got molten beam twice from pyromancy. Fatey was wrecking face the entire time -- my favorite was when he nailed a D blast into a Knight and 'one shotted' it.

I also got a LOT of use from Incursion and Boon of Flame. 3 Screamers are great to drop, and the Burning Chariot of Tzeentch -- especially after the LoC was dropping 'Cursed Earth' to remove deviation, was complete money. D3, STR 9, AP2 shots on the turn it arrives does wonders to the side and rear of armor.


Overall
This list needs more tweaking. It's not perfect yet, but it is damn good. I suggest trying it out and see how you can make it work for you.

If I owned enough Pink Horrors and Exalted Flamers I would make something like this list. I think a few things I would consider doing differently:

1. Paradox on the LoC. This will give you a guaranteed 5 dice summon so you can spend warp charges elsewhere. You hav e a ton, but the more the better! He does lose the sweet 3++ but I think it's a good trade.

2. Fit Grim on the herald. Could be really important to protect something or be annoying.

3. Fit some guns on the soul grinders. The torrent flamer is pretty solid and not too expensive.

Not sure how to get all those points. The swap of robes for paradox is free so that's easy. You could cut the disc on the herald, I don't see it being that important.

The only other real option would be to cut another unit of horrors for an exalted flamer.

UncleanOne wrote:
1. Paradox on the LoC. This will give you a guaranteed 5 dice summon so you can spend warp charges elsewhere. You have a ton, but the more the better! He does lose the sweet 3++ but I think it's a good trade.

I tried Paradox on the LoC on Friday when I tried it with a flying circus, but found that it was very easy to force grounding checks on the LoC. A 5+ save is just not that hot, and it's not that hard to throw wounds on a T6 monster. Enough lasguns will do the trick.

Now, take the save down to a 2+ rerollable, then the LoC cannot be removed from the sky. In my games on Sunday, the LoC only had to make a grounding test once -- when it failed a perils. It was very easy in both games to get the LoC down to a 2++. One game I rolled cursed earth on him, and then it was super easy to get it. The other way was the warp storm table, which was not as hard as you might think with fatey and the incursion. 2 chances on 2d6 to roll a 9, 10, or 11. In one game vs a CSM/Daemon player I even used the warp storm table to lower daemon saves, knowing I was about to punch him hard on that turn.

Don't get me wrong, Paradox is amazing. Throwing 5 dice knowing you -will- get that level 3 power off is really nice -- but with 20 + d6 dice starting, I never was hurting for psychic power. As the game progressed that value just increased as I kept spawning new tzeentch or nurgle heralds every turn or so.
Note, if you get double ones and you paradox, you will perils.

UncleanOne wrote:
2. Fit Grim on the herald. Could be really important to protect something or be annoying.

I've been thinking of this. I could drop his disc, but I'm a fan of the last turn contesting.

The other issue is the way the game played out. In both games the two FMCs were out face, and the herald sat back with the horrors on defensive duty. I had him take two from summoning and one from the tzeentch tree -- though next time I'll have him grab divination. The idea is that he just acts as another summon battery -- ideally with sacrifice or cursed earth.

So if hes sitting back, what can he grimorie? Horror squads? There is not a huge amount of advantage I saw for the grim on him.

UncleanOne wrote:
3. Fit some guns on the soul grinders. The torrent flamer is pretty solid and not too expensive.

My initial build had two, but I dropped them for the disc and tzeentch on the grinders.

This is worth going back to. Tzeentch on the grinders really gives you some cool tricks, and becomes a lot more effective as you lower the save.
If you are running on a 5+ save, Tzeentch increases the save from 1/3 to 1/3 + (1/6 * 1/3) or 33.3% to 38.8% That's a modest jump and worth 5 points. Now if you go to a 4+ save, then the save jumps from 50% to 58.3%. That's a lot better than it actually sounds, due to the way damage reduction works.

UncleanOne wrote:
Not sure how to get all those points. The swap of robes for paradox is free so that's easy. You could cut the disc on the herald, I don't see it being that important.

I'm with you on the disc. I'm thinking seriously of dropping it. I'll run some more test games and see.

Thanks for your thoughts, I appreciate the input!

 labmouse42 wrote:

Summary
I ran this twice today, once vs a tier two list and once vs a tier one list. In both cases the list did extremely well, and I am highly impressed with the results. With a little bit of tweaking I think this can really hit hard and throw people for a loop.

Curious what you define as a tier one and tier two list.

 FTGTEvan wrote:
Curious what you define as a tier one and tier two list.

It's my own nomenclature, and I should have expanded that concept.

I don't like to say 'Tier One Army', because people can take the best books and make crappy lists. 120 storm guardians with phenoix lord support would suck, even though the Eldar codex is full of amazing gems. Other books can generate one good build, even though they are otherwise full of garbage.
So how do I define these?

Tier One
Ultra competitive lists. Scat bikes, seer councils and WK spam. Gladius formation. Necron decursion.
Basically lists that you will see at the top tables of tourneys. It's the lists that can make the difference.

Tier Two
Competitive, yet fluffy, lists. My footdar list is a prime example of this. UncleanOne's CSM/Renegades is another example.
I play these lists on my local Friday night league, and sometimes I'll bring one to a tourney -- like this past weekend in NJ.

Tier Three
Fluff or purely thematic lists. 1k sons. Orks.

I am personally very happy with the warpflame. I used it twice Friday but instead of exalted flamers I used 4 3 man of regular flamers deepstriking. I took the rotswarm and kairos as well. took 6 single beast and a 6 man plague drone unit. everything moved 12 inches a turn except the flamers who summoned or flicked fire. It was great. I fought elder (damn wraithknight would never die and killed so so much) and tau. great games

 Icelord wrote:
I fought elder (damn wraithknight would never die and killed so so much) and tau. great games

That's one of the reasons I went with the exalted. WKs are a lot less willing to rush into a wall of STR 10, AP2 shots.

Like I said, some more tweaking can be done. After seeing how completely broken Renegades from IA are, I might ally in some of those to provide some extra stupidly cheap firepower and drop the grinders.

i put down the eldar ive put many many hours into painting in favor of this formation. Have you run any flamers yet? I was kinda looking to add a few into my list

Not yet. I've only tried it twice. As I said, I like the exalted flamers for the 'get off my lawn' factor, but might try some normal flamers to see how they work instead.

I also think I'll use a daemon prince because finecast is just awful but it will certainly be not as strong :(. lets pray for the plastic lord of change soon

 FTGTEvan wrote:

 labmouse42 wrote:

Summary
I ran this twice today, once vs a tier two list and once vs a tier one list. In both cases the list did extremely well, and I am highly impressed with the results. With a little bit of tweaking I think this can really hit hard and throw people for a loop.

Curious what you define as a tier one and tier two list.

He means my totally fluffy list. Not a single shred of competitiveness, here. Footslogging hormagaunts, no synapse, allied with SoB/Squat formations.

As for your list, it was a major pain and you know how close the game was, despite the advantages of my list. I would still recommend the void shield just because it seemed those horrors weren't doing much in your back ranks other than keeping the immobilized SG company. The shield would've prevented the barrages, and allowed you to move up a bit to apply a little more pressure towards the center of the board. Definite MVPs were Fatey and his robe-wearing pal, as the majority of the time it wasn't even worth shooting at them. They were really a nightmare.

What could be trimmed to afford one?

Tzeentch marks on the grinders?
Disk on the herald?
Lowering psychic level of herald?

With the way that you were summoning heralds, I wouldn't put it out of the realm of possibility to drop the psychic level on the herald. You seemed to be doing fairly well with sacrifice with the larger horror squads. I realize there's always a chance of not getting sacrifice but .. when you're rolling with that many dice, the odds are pretty low.