Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

I don't know what to do, so Monsterous Creatures and Flying monsterous Creatures (Daemon Prince and Keeper of secrets) always hit ap2 on melee attacks. But the datasheet for soulstealer says its an ap3 melee weapon with soulsteal. This would be fine although the only models that can take it are monsterous creatures, so do I use ap 2? Or is the soulstealer supposed to limit your armour pen to ap3?

Monstrous Creatures have the 'Smash' special rule (pg. 171, main rulebook) which states all of the model's close combat attacks (except Hammer of Wrath) are resolved at AP2 unless its attacking with an AP1 weapon.

This is probably more suited to Tactics, but OP, what unit of yours is the KoS massacring in such a demoralizing manner?

Mostly necrons tbh, works nicely

Keepers are fast, but Wraiths are faster, especially when the Keeper suffers an Initiative penalty for charging into terrain. Might I suggest wraiths? 3++ don't care about AP2, and they have plenty of wounds....

Also, Deathmarks.

Wraiths can't hold a pin to the keeper of secrets, wraith has weapon skill 4 against the keepers weapon skill of 9, keeper has move through cover so dosn't suffer initiative penalty, so he will ALWAYS hit first, he has 6 attacks, ap2, str 6 against toughness 5, so it is not likely your going to hit.

This is not including the 2 near manditory rewards that can give 4+ feel no pain, or 3+ armour or re-rolls for invulnerability saves and not including psychic powers such as invisibility.

Also regain a wound per model slain, without instadeath your in trouble

Reavas wrote:
he has move through cover so he won't suffer that penalty

WtF?? I've been stuck in 6e, my Dreadknights just got immensely better!

However, I was also referring to their movement speed, because they are definitely faster than Slaanesh. Move 12 and assault, whereas the KoS can either move 6 and assault, or move+run 6+d6+3 and not assault. Also, there is the chance the Keeper will move slower through terrain, but this never happens to Wraiths.

I meant that Wraiths can always catch a Keeper, and therefore they'll be able to screen your more fragile units from getting intercepted by the monster. In addition, they'll have more attacks, although this might be offset by their WS (I think it's a 4 and therefore need 5s to hit the Keeper?) Regardless, the 3++ should prevent them from dying quickly, and perhaps make them survive long enough to take it down.

Move Through Cover only ignores the charge distance penalty, not the initiative penalty. You typically need Assault Grenades to keep your initiative through cover. But since Demons don't get Assault Grenades, the only way for them to attack at initiative through cover is to use the Dreadskulls rule from the Skull Cannon.

Indeed, it's not obvious as it's not mentioned in 'Move Through Cover', but rather in 'Charging Through Difficult Terrain':

"If at least one model in the charging unit moved through difficult terrain as part of its charge move, all of the unit's models must attack at Initiative step 1... even if the charging unit is not slowed by difficult terrain."

Ah I see, nevermind its probably prefered for the keeper to attack 2nd anyway so he can regain wounds

And this is another reason why my models cost so many points. Man I love flip belts